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A question of ethics and potentially hot merchandise

My Sansui G-8000 is missing the S/N sticker on the back. I also bought a G-7000 and luckily found the S/N sticker laying in the bottom of the shipping carton. Had no reason to suspect any of the sellers were less than above board. S/N stickers sometimes fall off due to age. I've also seen items that have driver's license numbers and SSN numbers engraved on them, just like the authorities suggested to people to do years ago to aid in theft recovery. I wrote a guy auctioning a receiver with a name and SSN number on it if it was ok to use the info for identity theft if I won the unit and he replied, "Sure" as his uncle had been dead for years. :)

The seller is obligated to keep his personal account information up to date and as others have mentioned, the seller should provide that information without hesitating. If things don't match up, advise eBay and let them investigate.

As for email addresses, many folks have multiple "throw-away" type accounts (gmail, hotmail, yahoo, etc.) to prevent spam.

Send him the $20 and hope he doesn't toss a red ball into your feedback basket for spite. Personally, if I had committed to the purchase, I would have followed through regardless, as I don't tolerate Buyer's Remorse when I sell things.
 
I would never knowingly buy or sell stolen property, but I do shop in the local pawn shops, which I suspect may operate on a rather loose basis...

I've never thought about merchandise on eBay in that light, so this has given me something to think about. I guess the only completely "feel good" options may boil down to the guy with a receipt, or the local SA Thrift ('cause what criminal donates his score?).
 
Found at that famous auction site:

"The sale of stolen property is strictly forbidden on eBay, and violates Indian and international law. eBay strongly supports law enforcement efforts to recover stolen property that is listed on our web site, and urges the prosecution of those responsible for knowingly attempting to sell such items on eBay.

eBay forbids its members from listing goods that have altered or removed serial numbers.
Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:
• Listing or Want It Now post cancellation
• Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
• Limits placed on account privileges
• Loss of PowerSeller status
• Account suspension"

http://pages.ebay.in/help/policies/stolen.html
 
('cause what criminal donates his score?).
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That'd be the "pretend to be" do gooder who suddenly decides that the great deal he got might be because the unit was at one time "hot", so he decides the best no questions asked way of disposing of it is to drop it at the local GW or SA.

Stolen gear is a lot like the theives who take it........................... it's everywhere.

Search ebay seller "oregon trails", most of the stuff they sell is/was stolen, they are the state of Oregon. Some of the items were previously owned by the state of Oregon and have been decommissioned by the state and are disposed of thru ebay. The rest of the stuff is seized goods and evidence that for whatever reason goes unclaimed and is ultimately sold on ebay.
 
Well. I'd contact the ebay account holder and verify the actual person. I bought some speakers from ebay that were local. I contacted the seller after the purchase and she gave me the number to her husband's pawn shop. After a little digging I found hubbie's ebay account and it was pretty bad. No out and out rip off's but bad. So, I can see he was using another account for a good reason. The tranzaction went well. Were they previously stolen? I have no idea. If I'd known otherwise I would not purchase them but there was nothing telling me they were hot. A missing serial #doesn't mean much. It's just a clue. You need more evidence to determine if they are hot.
Verify the seller. Protect yourself. Buy it if he checks out ok.
You have 2 reasons to back out of the deal. A false account and missing serial #'s. Ebay should back you on this.
Make sure the deal will go thru and then do it or back out because the seller is unverifiable.
 
eBay forbids its members from listing goods that have altered or removed serial numbers.
Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:
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LMAO!!!!!!!!....................... ebay policy indeed!

I believe ebay has among it's ongoing and growing list of basically unenforced policies, one against shill bidding yet, it's an ongoing practice.

The only policies i have ever seen ebay enforce are those that best support their own healthy bottom line. If you contribute significantly to ebay's fee base, then you will be allowed to bend and twist the rules and policies to a great extent with the most extensive repercussions being the cancellation of listings with blatent violations in them, fix the violations and you can put the item right back up again.

Just my .02 y'all understand................................
 
bowtie427ss said:
LMAO!!!!!!!!....................... ebay policy indeed!

The only policies i have ever seen ebay enforce are those that best support their own healthy bottom line. If you contribute significantly to ebay's fee base, then you will be allowed to bend and twist the rules and policies to a great extent with the most extensive repercussions being the cancellation of listings with blatent violations in them, fix the violations and you can put the item right back up again.

Just my .02 y'all understand................................
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hhhmm.. not sure about that.. I had a friend that was selling some "gray market" sweatshirts. She couldn't verify they were the real deal (Something like Gucci or similar) or that they weren't. She didn't list them as authentic, but was selling them like hotcakes for $25 each. She went through something like 10 cases before one of the manufacturers reported her... e-pray was making a fortune off her.. from these types of goods, and a lot of estate sales she would buy out and put up for auction... They suspended her account for 3 months.. and she had something like 99% great feedback with thousands of sales..

She supported herself quite well doing nothing but e-bay all day every day. She even had a couple of employee's to help take orders and do the shipping.

I'm sure they lost a lot of cash after they suspended her...
 
US postal service money orders are NOT risky.
One of the safest ways to pay for items.

PayPal is a joke. Ya ya, you've never had problems, well get back to me when they do a 180 on you and we'll share horror stories of that evil entity(that admittedly became more evil AFTER ebay acquired them).

To repeat others...

Serial #s, missing numbers etc...this is VINTAGE gear that's potentially changed hands a shocking amount of times. Some of this gear could easily have had 10+ owners over the years.

On requesting a receipt from the guy for his purchase?

WHAT? Lesse, most of us here buy gear ANYWHERE, or find it and, far as I remember most of the places gear is acquired DON'T offer receipts.

Where's that rolling eyes smilie again...

Anyhoo, if it's that suspicious, report seller to ebay. Suggestion to call the seller a good one. Though the whole thing sounds really stinky, stinky like Yorx.

On the grey market stuff...where's that rolling eyes smilie again?
10 cases of grey market stuff that readily obvious from your post was NOT authentic and a manufacturer had it removed? Couldn't verify authentic, but she bought 10 cases anyhow and selling like hot cakes for $25? Hmmm.
Yep, I believe it. Same as I believe Yorx is the best audio gear out there.
Not listed as authentic, so just listed as say, Gucci, but since she didn't clarify they were indeed authentic she's off the hook and can claim ignorance(stupidity)???

Really? *SARCASM*

It really is true that one of the biggest problems in todays society is people are incapable of a simple thing like taking responsibility for their actions!
 
Teron said:
On the grey market stuff...where's that rolling eyes smilie again?
10 cases of grey market stuff that readily obvious from your post was NOT authentic and a manufacturer had it removed? Couldn't verify authentic, but she bought 10 cases anyhow and selling like hot cakes for $25? Hmmm.
Yep, I believe it. Same as I believe Yorx is the best audio gear out there.
Not listed as authentic, so just listed as say, Gucci, but since she didn't clarify they were indeed authentic she's off the hook and can claim ignorance(stupidity)???

Really? *SARCASM*

It really is true that one of the biggest problems in todays society is people are incapable of a simple thing like taking responsibility for their actions!
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She really didn't know if the items were legit or not. They appeared to be, because she compaired them to the real deal, and couldn't see any differences, however, she had suspicions because of how she aquired them, and because of the prices she got them for. She didn't feel they were stolen though....

She listed them a Sweats printed with Gucci logo... No deceipt there... and the people that bought them were all happy. I remember one feedback she showed me.. They guy said not sure if it's a knock off or not, but if it is, the best I've ever seen.

Hey.. everyone was happy, except for Gucci.. or what ever brand it was.. I really can't remember.. I don't believe in paying a company to wear their name on my clothes, They should pay me to advertise, so that's why I can't remember the company..

Seems to me, Gucci or what ever company it was should have thanked her... at least she was putting their name out there, and NOT claiming it was actually their gear... Nothing like free advertising huh? Because I'm sure people would much rather pay $25 and wear a name, than pay $75.... most won't wear it for that...
 
The point i take here is that ebay was taking no action until they received a complaint from the only party that "might" be able to take some sort of official action.

Ebay's view of EVERYTHING is tempered with the "cha chinnnngggg" of their accountant's adding machine.:yes:
 
bowtie427ss said:
The point i take here is that ebay was taking no action until they received a complaint from the only party that "might" be able to take some sort of official action.

Ebay's view of EVERYTHING is tempered with the "cha chinnnngggg" of their accountant's adding machine.:yes:
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I think your right.. they seem to take the opposite path that will cost them the most money... no threat of losing money, no need to change the the quo...
 
I agree with Bowtie on this.One problem with eBay is the silly feedback system.If you are a buyer and you pay for something almost instantly at the end of the auction,what else are you supposed to do?But the seller NEVER leaves feedback until the buyer does.He basically holds it hostage.I bought an SX 1010 several weeks ago and the guy took 28 days to ship it.But,if I leave negative feedback he will retaliate,and I like my 100%.The reason eBay leaves it that way is because if they made it buyer only feedback it would cut out some of the crap and hurt their bottom line.
 
ZeroJunk said:
I agree with Bowtie on this.One problem with eBay is the silly feedback system.If you are a buyer and you pay for something almost instantly at the end of the auction,what else are you supposed to do?But the seller NEVER leaves feedback until the buyer does.He basically holds it hostage.I bought an SX 1010 several weeks ago and the guy took 28 days to ship it.But,if I leave negative feedback he will retaliate,and I like my 100%.The reason eBay leaves it that way is because if they made it buyer only feedback it would cut out some of the crap and hurt their bottom line.
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hhhmm.. but then again, the train travels both ways. You get a lot of scam buyers, along with scan sellers.. you would think there had to be some kind of way they could do it differently though...

In the case of 28 days shipping, post the facts, and maybe leave it as neutral.. not good or bad.. .."took the seller 28 days to ship, but item was as advertised, and packed well" .. if that was the case..

leave your feedback first, and then it does give you a little bit of room to post a reply to any negative feedback he may leave you AFTER you posetd yours.. easier to show the seller was retalliating...
 
Well, all's well that ends well. I sent the seller $20 and my apologies, he contacted eBay to inform them we were mutually withdrawing from the deal, thereby refunding his listing fee and we both left each other positive feedback. Of me, he said "excellent communication, would be happy to do business with again..." for him, I said "excellent communication, patient and honorable seller... "Case closed. Nobody hurt. Lesson learned.
 
All I have to say about the whole thing is this: a deal is a deal. My word is my bond. I know that may sound old-fashioned to many people but it still means something to me.

I have bought and sold over 600 items on eBay and while I have allowed buyers to back out of a deal once or twice, I personally would never consider doing the same.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one.
 
As a seller, I can understand not wanting to leave feedback until after the buyer. I've encountered enough psycho buyers, who made unreasonable demands after receiving the item, to be cautious. I don't leave feedback until the transaction is complete, and it's not complete until the customer is satisfied.
 
Andy,I understand the reasoning.But,there is no way that buyer and seller feedback should be weighted the same.If I am thinking about bidding on an item and look at the negatives,I basically pay no attention to anything negative from sellers.It's almost always retaliation.I have let some guys slide rather than get into it and am sure that most everybody else has.This skews the feedback.It at least could be divided into seller percentage and buyer percentage.This might clean some of the junk off eBay.But,their volume would go down.So,it ain't gonna happen.
 
In California, for example, it is technically illegal under Consumer Affairs regulations for a repair shop to service a machine that does not have a serial number. Thankfully, the Bureau has seldom enforced this regulation, because it conflicts with provisions of the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act.

However, if the police department in my city (San Diego) sees a unit in my store that does not have a serial number, the presumption will be that the unit is stolen until proven otherwise.

Over my 35 years servicing audio, I've come to the view that when a machine is missing the serial number, and it is not on a sticker that looks like it just fell off (e.g. Sansui) but rather on a metal plate with the model number (e.g. Pioneer), or when the serial number has been deliberately obliterated like with a stolen gun, I presume the machine to be stolen.

You only have to look at the kind of people who bring in serial-number-less machines. Though a few are okay, most are low-life: druggies, gang members, etc.

Fred
 
I do remember a brother who defended someone caught with an item with the S/N scratched out. The same make and model had been reported stolen. His defense was he removed s/n to prove it was his. He produced a receipt from a retailer who verified the receipt as from him that the person had in fact purchased the unit new and before the theft.

Sadly, and unhappily, the person who reported it as stolen asked the police to open the unit up and on the inside was engraved the person's name. How did the guy buy a new unit from a legit retailer before the other unit was stolen and end up with a stolen unit?

Can you guess?

Oh, the poor guy did get off.
 
Fred Longworth said:
In California, for example, it is technically illegal under Consumer Affairs regulations for a repair shop to service a machine that does not have a serial number.
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Thanks Fred for posting that information. That is just one more reason why I would never knowingly by equipment without a serial number.
 
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