A question of ethics

motorstereo said:
I wonder what on earth it took to make a hpm 100 woofer "crap out"? They're incredibly robust woofers.
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I bought a set a few years ago to play with and when I got them home 1 woofer was seized up tight. I pulled it out and found that the magnet glue had come loose and the magnet had shifted. I was able to pull it apart and reset it. As far as I know it's still going. I'm just one data point but 50% of the HPM-100 woofers I've had were bad.
 
KrisM said:
The way I see it? If you set them up and let him listen to them, and they were fine when he left, it is his problem. Buying old gear is a gamble. My guess is he messed them up himself. Why should you pay for that?
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Couldn't have said it better. I would feel bad for the guy, but if there was nothing wrong with them then I'd politely tell him so and that I was sorry.

I sold a car to a coworker years ago and about a month after he bought it the transmission went out. I never had an issue with it so I told him so. I felt bad but there wasn't anything I could do.
 
toxcrusadr said:
If he seemed like an honest type I might ask him what he was driving them with, how high it was turned up, and what were the tone controls and loudness settings. That might be a clue.

If you didn't feel like you were responsible but still wanted the guy to come away happy, you could ask if he wanted some help locating a replacement woofer.

Just a couple thoughts.
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I would also do it this way, I think your discussion with him should decide it, if he's a jerk about it, or you think he's mistreated the speaker, then it's easy, if the guy seems like an honest man, then help him out. Good karma is always the best way to go.
 
Tough one.

Maybe he had a pair with a blown woofer, swapped them, and now wants to return them?

Maybe he over powered them? Or under powered?

Maybe he dropped one and the magnet shifted?

Maybe a wire did come lose? I have even seen the wire coming from the cone come loose from the terminal.

I have driven my pair quite hard, and they seem to like it.

You have no obligation to the buyer, but you could refund $60 and tell him to buy one of the woofers off E-bay.

If it was me, I would ask some questions, and offer to look at them with no promise of a refund.

Do you have any pics that you could ID the woofer from, to make sure it's the same one?

Good luck.

Rob
 
vinyldavid said:
Its his problem...you certainly gave him a long enough audition period, and unless you gave him some sort of warranty, he should know what vintage gear is an as-is game.
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That's it right there. Unless you specifically offered some kind of 7/30/90-day warranty, it's AS IS - same as if you bought a pair of HPM's from some guy on CL or picked 'em up at GW (What kind of answer do you think the guy would get if he called the GW store a day or two later saying a woofer crapped out? :scratch2:). Now, if you've got some technical expertise and you really-want to be the nice guy, I would tell him you can't refund his money, but offer to take a look at the cab/driver to see if it's indeed a loose wire or something easily-fixable, but if the woofer is indeed fried, then there's not much you can do aside from helping him source a used/new replacement woofer at his cost. These were used items, so unless there was a clear warranty of some sort, you're in no way obligated to do anything. He had plenty of time to decide whether or not he wanted to purchase them. That's why used items with no warranty cost significantly-less than used items WITH a warranty. What would you be expecting, had you bought them from some guy an hour away from you who sold them on Fleabay or CL? Not much, right?
 
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You gave him an EXTENDED Audition. There was NO PHYSICAL(written) or IMPLIED warranty. The items were working condition when they left the premises. When off the premises your(meaning you) responsibility ENDED!

I'd tell the guy, "SORRY, there was no warranty either REAL or IMPLIED! AS IS, WHERE IS means just that, you take responsibility for anything that happens after you remove them from the premises."

Larry
 
Or think of it like this: If YOU bought a used speaker that was working fine, took it home and it died, would you call the seller back and ask for a refund?
 
Wigwam Jones said:
I agree, and that's what I'd do, except I don't think I would 'never do business with him again.' It may well not be anything he did. They're old speakers. Just moving them could have jostled something.

I agree that where there is no express or implied warranty period, you are not legally obliged to do anything. But I would consider it 'the right thing to do' to take the speakers back and refund his money. That's just me.

Now, if he shows up with different speakers, or a smoking pile of rubble that used to be your speakers, that's a different story. You don't suspect him of being the type who would swap a good woofer for a bad one, do you? If he listened for an hour, I wouldn't think so, but you never know, I guess.
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I agree with this as long as he has not changed drivers. I always try and put a non damaging mark of some sort on the drivers to keep the honest honest!:D
Regards,
Jim
 
I think it depends on the situation and sometimes you just don't know what that situation is until you're involved in it.

It's easy to be an armchair hard-ass until you're at the other end of the of the ass. :D
 
If they were working when he listened to them, then he's probably done something to blow the woofer. Did you tell him it's easier to blow up speakers with an amp that's underpowered?

I've bought speakers without listening to them at all. I've also taken along an old car CD/tuner unit plugged into the cigarette lighter of my new car, and used this to audition speakers (my older car, I can just unhook the speaker wires).

You were kind enough to let this person into your home, and take up an hour of your time. The "nice" thing to do would be to give him a refund, but do you want to be that nice? After all, you'll be left with a semi functioning pair of speakers. You could search eBay, see what a replacement woofer is worth (if available), and offer him a refund minus that amount.

Lee.
 
The right thing to do is assess the situation (check our speaker, etc.) and decide what to do from there.

I agree that likely nothing is technically due the buyer but nobody, not one of us, appreciates a terse "tough luck" approach.
 
He probably blew it up with testosterone. I'd probably try to help him troubleshoot it. I'd also ask a lot of questions about when, where, what equipment and how loud he was pushing these, etc.

If he needs a new woofer, I'd tell him the best way to find one and keep an eye out myself for him. I would be hesitant to refund any money though. Woofers just don't fry for no reason usually.
 
Give him 10% from the purchase price, that should cover any servicing. I personally would give him nothing and if I was the one breaking the speakers I would expect nothing.

Most likely he had a short in the spk cables or has a broken yet somehow still operational amp. If he damaged them with clipping he wouldn't call you.
 
kirk57 said:
Or think of it like this: If YOU bought a used speaker that was working fine, took it home and it died, would you call the seller back and ask for a refund?
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This is a good question. After all, since we're talking ethics, what you have here is a form of Kant's Categorical Imperative, and it's exercised quite nicely.

Now, if you can honestly answer this with a "Heck yeah, I would," then I'd suggest that you talk to the guy to do some troubleshooting over the phone. Ask him questions over and over, intentionally screwing up a detail. If his story wavers, then he may be fudging something.

If he brings 'em back, before you accept them, take the grills off and inspect the speakers for obvious damage or swapped woofers. Are HPM-100s in that class of speakers whose foams rot out?
 
there is always a range hen you buy used : most used stuff I buy I don't even get to audition ... and I have been burned : but I ONLY buy when the deal is REALLY GOOD. You auditioned for an hr ... this implies that you were not selling at rock bottom ..... If he paid higher-end then I think you owe him a look at the speakers ...there was no implied warranty : I get that ... but I also am a buyer : and when I pay top buck for used I expect some courtesy.... can't hurt to look at them : and it indicates to the buyer that you DO CARE..... as to what you do once you discover what is wrong ... thats up to you
 
Screw that. The dude either swapped woofers with his blown one or he blew it. Either way they were fine when he got them to his home. Used gear, no warranty, buy it as is, play with them for an hour to help you decide. You're not Best Buy, you owe nothing to him after the transaction ended, and it ended when he gave you his cash and took his speakers. End of story. Tell him the deal is done and he took them home in working condition just like when he auditioned them for over an hour. Tell him "no offense, but I don't know you from Adam and have no clue if you may have damaged.them yourself". Ethics plays no part in the sale of used equipment. He night what he wanted at the agreed price. What happens after that is not your concern. Sheez, if you're going to warranty every piece of used 30 year old gear you might as well never try to sell it in the first place.

Jimmy
 
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