A Tale of 3 Dacs - Or, the best way to spend $2000 on a DAC

Bigerik

Bigerik

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Intro:

Once again, due to the generosity of good friends, I get a chance to try some great, and interesting gear. Specifically, 3 different takes on what to make a great sounding DAC.

First contender is one I have talked about here before. At about $1800, the Chord Chordette QuteHD DAC. Truly on the cutting edge of DACs, and a multi award winner for best DAC in it's price range, the Chord does everything, including DSD64.

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The second is a bit of an oddball and throwback, but is that a bad thing? The Redgum RGDAC5/RGCD5. At about $2500 for the DAC5, it uses the old Burr Brown PCM 1702 20 bit, early Delta Sigma DAC's (1 per channel), with a NPC digital filter chip. Where the money seems to go in this beast is in the power supply. Supplies actually. 7 of them! John De Sensi of Musiclabs did the digital design, while Ian Robertson of Redgum designed the analog stages and power supplies. As with all Redgum gear, it has a slab of beautiful high gloss red gum wood on the front. Lovely.

RGCD5RemClosed.jpg


Finally, and it is certainly a matter of last but not least, is the AudioNote Kit 2.1 DAC. Definitely a technological old schooler, though designed in 2007, the AN 2.1 is $1550 kit DAC using the now uncommon (some might say outdated) multi bit, resistor ladder DAC technology with no analog filtering. And, very importantly, NO OVERSAMPLING! Add to this a tube power supply and output stage (using the 6922 tube), all designed by Andy Grove at AudioNote. While seemingly old fashioned, it does allow for 24 bit/96 kHz playback. This thing is a big beast of a DAC, much bigger and more substantial than the integrated amp sized Redgum, let along the Chord. And while it technically might be a "kit", their is certainly nothing homemade feeling about it. Build quality is superb, if not flashy. The metal work is of very high quality, as are all the boards.

DAC2_1Front4.jpg



I'll be using a M2tech Evo USB/SPDIF convertor, as neither the Redgum (not available) nor the AN (an option) have USB inputs. I've become a big believer in high quality USB/SPDIF convertors being essential to good DAC sound. Most onboard USB's just don't do a good enough job.
 
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There is a lot of romantic discussions around the interweb about the merits of the old ladder Dacs and their sound quality superiority. While I don't doubt that there were some that sounded great, the vast majority of ladder dac CD players sounded horrible. As with so many things in audio, it isn't the technology per se that makes the difference. It's all about how it is implemented.
 
This is an area where the tech is moving very fast.
I read everything I can about it and am very interested in seeing where this will lead.
 
audiodon said:
This is an area where the tech is moving very fast.
I read everything I can about it and am very interested in seeing where this will lead.
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I guess that is the question. While the tech is moving fast, does that mean that the sound quality is improving fast also?
 
I hope you're not planning to audition the Audio Note DAC with speakers that you like. A non-oversampling ladder DAC without an analog reconstruction filter after the converter chip puts out very high levels of ultrasonic noise. If your preamp and power amp are wideband and you listen at moderate to high levels, the energy in the ultrasonic range could be sufficient to let the magic smoke out of your tweeter voice coils. You might get lucky and not smoke them, but I wouldn't risk it if I were the one doing the audition.
 
Dr Tinear said:
I hope you're not planning to audition the Audio Note DAC with speakers that you like. A non-oversampling ladder DAC without an analog reconstruction filter after the converter chip puts out very high levels of ultrasonic noise. If your preamp and power amp are wideband and you listen at moderate to high levels, the energy in the ultrasonic range could be sufficient to let the magic smoke out of your tweeter voice coils. You might get lucky and not smoke them, but I wouldn't risk it if I were the one doing the audition.
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Wow! You need to do some more research on this DAC.

Btw, It's been singing happily in my system. It's been running for years in a much better system then mine.
 
botrytis said:
Interesting information - is there a link or reference one can read?
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And completely, totally, dead wrong.

Dr. T seems to have an axe to grind about AN DACs. Seeing as how we are in the Cutting Edge, I'd suggest another thread be started about his history of measurements of Audio Note Dacs, and the tweeters he has blown with them. Me? I'm gonna listen and report what I hear.
 
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acdalek said:
Looking forward to this Bigerik! Always enjoy your DAC discussions.
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Thanks! This one is going to be particularly interesting. For me, at least. :)

Of course, I had some preconceived notions coming in. I figured they would sound about like this:

1) Chord - The killer and best of the lot. To be honest, I really came in thinking this was an unfair comparison. I'm on record raving about how good the Chord is, and I really expected it to run away, with the others battling it out for second.

2) AudioNote - My expectation was a slightly old fashioned cd player sound, with a fair bit of romance from the tubes. I expected it to be musical, since everything by AudioNote is, but undynamic and lacking in detail.

3) Redgum - I was expecting punch and dynamics, with a comparatively rougher sound through the miss.

Early impressions? It is a MUCH closer run thing through all three DACs then I ever would have expected. At the early running, I'd have the Chord 3rd, with a tossup between the prat and rhythmic drive of the Redgum against the almost spookily realistic vocals of the AudioNote. But again, this is just early impressions with only maybe 3-4 hours of listening to each.

That being said, they all have very unique sonic signatures. It sure ain't hard to tell them apart.

Surprises so far?

1) Shocked by how detailed and dynamic the AudioNote is. I was expecting warm and mushy. Couldn't be further from the truth.

2) Shocked again, by how well the Redgum is holding up. I think the M2Tech Evo is helping it along nicely. I heard it earlier with a cheaper USB/SPDIF convertor, and it didn't impress that much as a DAC.

Much more to follow.
 
Do we have to again remind people what this forum is about? Please read the forum rules if you are in doubt.
 
Also interested to see how this turns out. My expectations would be the opposite in terms of the Chord. Only because in general all the DAC's (and phono pres for that matter) I've heard with transformers, old school powers supplies and output stages tend to sound better than most of the small chip units. Not saying there's something fundamentally flawed about transformer-less compact units and to be fair I'm basing this on the pictures and I haven't gone through the schematics of the particular units, just my personal experience.

Will be interesting to hear your impressions after more listening!
 
Bigerik said:
Do we have to again remind people what this forum is about? Please read the forum rules if you are in doubt.
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My apologies, Erik. My intent in posting was to alert you to a condition with the Audio Note DAC that, in my opinion, posed a risk to the rest of your system. I won't make that mistake again.

What DAC architecture does the Chord use to convert non-DSD data? I'd be interested to know what technology and what chips Chord chose for their design and whether it oversamples on PCM data.
 
Dr Tinear said:
My apologies, Erik. My intent in posting was to alert you to a condition with the Audio Note DAC that, in my opinion, posed a risk to the rest of your system. I won't make that mistake again.

What DAC architecture does the Chord use to convert non-DSD data? I'd be interested to know what technology and what chips Chord chose for their design and whether it oversamples on PCM data.
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Sorry. Don't buy it all that it poses any risk to my system. Or anyone else's system, for that matter.

Actually, I know the gent who owns the company. I'll pass your concerns on to him and ask for his feedback.
 
Settling in for some more listening with the Audio Note. So far my ears have been very happy, and me tweeters have survived. :)
 
Interesting comparison here Erik - old, new and...weird? (that would be the AudioNote :) )

The AudioNote hasn't taken out any tweeters here yet either - sorry to put your system in peril.
 
Billfort said:
Interesting comparison here Erik - old, new and...weird? (that would be the AudioNote :) )

The AudioNote hasn't taken out any tweeters here yet either - sorry to put your system in peril.
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My tweeters are still holding up.

As far as weird, I think the Redgum counts too!

I've been in touch with Audio Note and am awaiting their reply. They might be busy with all the warranty claims from blown tweeters though. We will see what they say.
 
estreeter said:
Wait till RGA hears that you prefer the QuteHD to an AN DAC, Erik ! :D
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Actually, you need to read again. As of now, I'm preferring the AN to the Chord.

To be honest, they are all good, and it might come down to what flavor you prefer, and what your needs are for high res. Obviously, if you want DSD, that narrows your choice to one. Best Redbook? Right now, it's between the Redgum and the AN.
 
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