Adultery with a NEW Receiver

Patrick

Patrick

Active Member
I’ve been curious for a while about some of the new (and few) two-channel receivers still being made. Don’t want a multi-channel unit with buzzy special effects. Sometimes get a little weary of the fussing and fiddling necessary to get vintage stuff working, and then looking good. Something brand new that just works out of the box and comes with a warranty was starting to appeal. So I took a run at a Sony STR-DE197 a) because it was on sale; b) the specs looked good; c) the shop has a no-hassle return policy and d) it was well under $200.

It’s a plain black unit (no surprise), the only two-channel receiver Sony now makes, and it has a nice small footprint. Remote, of course. Rotary volume control and push-button digital everything else. No phono section. A bass boost button (that turned out to have a surprisingly subtle effect). Claimed plenty of power: 100wpc into 8. A decent weight – about 15 pounds. Lots of relay clicks when it’s turned on, and clicks from the A/B speaker selector buttons.

First disappointment: the tuner section. Local stations that my aging Pioneer and Yamaha pull in with ease couldn’t be found. Those that arrived suffered from interference, even after much antenna shuffling, and trying it without one and so on. I would have thought tuner technology might have improved, not declined, even in a cheap unit.

Second disappointment: despite driving reasonably-efficient Mission M70’s, I had to crank the volume up to 18 just to enjoy music. And that’s with the bass boost on. Yeah, I know about curves and attenuation – but this is a small room. What’s with that? Don’t know what Sony were thinking of.

It just doesn’t cut it and it’s going back. I feel like I’ve had an unsatisfying fling and I’m home again.
 
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Don't bother with new

I have never liked Sony audio much, especially new stuff. Most of it is a joke :lmao: Two hundred goes along way with Vintage stuff. All my Quad Pioneer receivers were around $50. A decent SX 727 I got was 85 bucks with freight! And a cool SX-850 I got for $125--minty. Sold em both. :worried:Ran out of room. I like Pioneer but there is also somm cool Marantz and Sansui stuff out there and a lot better than that Sony. :thmbsp:

Eric
 
The Sony is one of the worst, right down there with the "KLH" (curses to the Asian concern dragging Kloss's once-great brand through the mass market mud!) garbage units sold by Beast Buy. About the only good affordable new 2-channel units are Onkyo's sets, the TX-8211 (50wpc) and TX-8511 (100wpc). The 8211's IMHO a better buy, only 3dB less power and no video-switching circuits. Has a decent PS and is by all accounts decent-sounding. It usually sells for $199, though it seems to be on sale for $179 at most places. Onkyo has a similar unit, the TX-8011 that sells for $149 or less, but has no phono stage.

Try one of those if you're jonesing for something NIB with a warranty...not as beefy as our cherished vintage units but for a quick'n'dirty fix it'll get the job done, I think. I bet its 50wpc walk all over whatever that Sony claimed it had. Most of the mass-market crap can deliver 100 watts one channel at a time into a resistor load at 1KHz, but once you connect a real speaker load and play music, fagheddaboutit.

TP
 
I know, I know - vintage stuff is cheaper, and that's not the only reason I like it.

I've got a sweet Marantz 2220 here that I picked up for $5 at a garage sale but it needs the usual work (dial lamps, etc. - plus some attention to the tuning thingee). It's become one of those some-day items.

I've read about the new Onkyos. Hard to find around here (Toronto) though.

Nah, this was just about wanting to taste new for a change. Before scurrying back to vintage. Better bang for buck. Better bang, period.
 
Love your Toronto AM 740 CHWO Radio Station!!!!

Started messing with big,old, portable radios. The AM sections are better than anything I have. I got a Zenith Transoceanic 1000 for 68 bucks and remembered it has no FM. Oh well I own it and cleaned it up. Gave it a test on AM and picked up AM 740. It is delight. My Zenith Inneroceanic and Montgomery Ward Multiband portables get it too! :yes: It would be fun to live in Toronto and get it during the day. A fun station.

Good luck getting a new receiver! Eric :thmbsp:
 
Thanks all. I'll probably stick with vintage, unless something like an Onkyo TX-8211 comes along at an irresistable price.

And it's from a shop with a no-hassle return policy.

Eric: glad you like AM740. Bit too wacky for me, what with songs I hated as a kid and announcers who all want to be my pal. Friend of a friend works in sales there so if I ever have a chance at a giveaway (every radio station has 'em) I'll gladly send it on.
 
One thought, there's actually a decent older (not sure I can call it vintage) NAD integrated with phono on Audiogon for only $150. One of their earlier units, which is supposed to be really nice. You could try that with a tuner or the tuner section from one of your receivers. May be a different flavor and I believe this model received many accolades over the years.
 
Here's my experience with "new" receivers.

Got a *big* Yamaha AV receiver (RX-V1050 TOTL 1991 5ch). I thought since it was big & heavy, it would have enough juice to drive about anything. After hooking up a big pair of AR speakers I got from Auditech, I thought the speakers were seriously bass-shy. Sure they only have a pair of 8" woofers in a sealed box but something was definitely amiss.

A quick investigation revealed two big issues.

The AR speakers were rated 4 ohms impedance and more importantly, the yammie is only good for 8 or 16 ohm loads. WTF? This receiver is nearly in the same weight class as my old Pioneer SX-1080 but it can't drive a single pair of 4 ohm speakers?

I don't want to give up remote control in this system so eventually I'm going to run the pre-outs to a 200 wpc QSC amp (or maybe a Carver TFM-25 depending on how either handles 4 ohm loads)

I guess the moral here is that even if the new stuff passes the heft test, it'll probably let you down if you hand it anything besides a generic load.
 
I have played around with these modern new fangled 2 channel receivers at Circuit City from time to time, IMHO don't waste your time. The tuning sections are often useless on all except the strongest stations, this could be fixed by connecting an outboard tuner, but the amp sections are not that great either, hardly capable of driving any sort of real speaker. 15lbs is not that much when you think about it. I have picked up 80s gear that weighs more than that. The price is reasonable, I mean it will perform better than most of those minisystems, but that is not saying much. Vintage is cheaper. End of story, you might pay a near equal amount to get a good example in the same power range, but it is well worth it. I actually paid less than that Sony costs for each one of my Project One Mark 1500s, and that would run circles around the Sony any day of the week.

The most modern receiver I use is a Sony STR-DE935 HT receiver for my HT rig. This was not exactly a bottom feeder in the Sony line, was supposed to be one of the better models. It actually does not do too bad for HT use, I mean you could do much much worse. For music listening though? Nothing to write home about. I have it hooked up to a pair of these odd IDI Octagon speakers, which it is more than capable of driving (these would be good speakers to pair with a sub, so I have a passive custom built Isobaric subwoofer driven by a dedicated amp). This is reasonable at best. I have this hooked up so I can run my Fisher RS-1080 along with this setup if I want an insane amount of power, but the RS-1080 is more than adequate on its own.

There are decent pieces of modern gear but you are going to pay for them for the most part. There are some exceptions. The Rat Shack amp discussed in another thread (along with the similar plethora of Pyramid/Pyle models which are essentially variations of it) is reasonably built for a modern piece of equipment if you want something powerful and they are for the most part reasonably priced if you can live with a straight stereo power amp. Unlike some of these fancy pro amps it is cheap because it is simple and does not really use a fancy topology of any sort, from the looks of it inside, it is just a big class AB amplifier. It works decent for music though tends to be a bit clean. I have a Pyramid PA1800X used it for about 30 hours before I switched it to driving the sub, so who knows it may sound different now. Someday I will pair it up with a tube preamp and see what happens when I use it for music in such a setup. Pairing that with other components probably would sound a heck of a lot better than that Sony, and at least it has adequate power to drive big speakers. You can have one of the bigger models (they call them 1000 watts but obviously it is not going to produce anything near that) in the $175 range, $220 or so if you go for the PA1800X or if you really splurge quite a lot for the big Pyle PT4000.

I guess my point is this modern stuff is OK at best for moderate and undemanding loads. I would second the bet for an Onkyo if I wanted a decent two channel of a modern production at a cheap price.
 
Guys, thanks for joining this thread.

Jimmy, thanks for the link to the Onkyo TX-8211. I'll check it out.

But not before I've taken this Sony back.

It's packed and ready to go.

Why, it looks good as new!
 
Hi Pat,
I think the Sony receiver you purchased is ok but is best suited to very efficient speakers like Klipsch or Cerwin Vega. Frankly I like the current units from Harman Kardon and Denon. While their list prices may be a little out of your budget range, you might consider a used unit. The amps in these receivers are solid performers but the tuners are fairly ordinary. They work ok but they're not giant killer types. That being said, my HK3375 draws in CBC from Windsor (I live north of Detroit) pretty well and it's over 30 miles away so the tuners aren't that bad. CBC is the Canadian version of NPR here in the US. The Onkyo receivers are good too but the HK and Denon's are very good alternatives.
 
Harmon Kardon does indeed make some fine equipment e.g. the "signature 1.0 preamp" (w/built in Phono MM/MC amplifiers) but it was very, very expensive when new. (for what it is)
I'm not familiar with new Denon, but I am with Toshiba, model DS-900e dvd player (DS-9200 in the US).
This model has a full metal jacket and an entire chassis made of copper, it weighs about 13 kg (29 lbs). I couldn't see the transformer(s) as it resides behind a copper housing. I suspect though, the vintage top cd-players having the favor here, aswell as the drawer quality which isn't of the sturdy metal type on the Toshiba (in contrary to the 1 on my vintage Sansui CD-701i cdp).

The Toshiba sounds excellent btw
 
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Guys in my opinion, stay the hell away from new harmon kardon!!!!!!

Ive been working in future shop for about a month now and they are pieces of crap!!! Everyone jokes about them, I have had some time to play around with them and have noticed the volume knobs on the front are EXTREMELY cheap. If you turn the knob fast (AT ALL) im talking like average speed when turning it up or down, it doesnt register and offen goes in the opposite direction.........

say your at -20 and you wanna turn it down really quick so you grab it and give it a quick twist. It goes to + 15 !!!!! max volume.

I personally HATE the stuff we have one in the demo room and you can absolutely crank it with top Polk stuff and it isnt very loud at all, and VERY distorted.

when an amp somes back its like 60 - 70 % of the time HK and we sell like 6 brands of amps so thats pretty bad.

new yamaha kicks some ass, cant go wrong with the new 5760 or 5790, built like tanks and pack some serious power. Im saving up for the 5760, cheapest quality amp ive seen with a full set of pre-puts.
 
It's true the H/K signature pre's volume knob is defenitely not ideal. Often the rotary volume knob wouldn't go past '9 '0 clock', when controlled via the remote. Sometimes volume adjusting wouldn't work at all. Adjusting volume on the unit itself works ok. The problem isn't the remote. It's a badly designed volume knob where a long wire actually turns along with the rotary knob and touches the surface inside the unit.
Otherwise I have no complaints, this is defenitely a high-quality preamplifier, but normal at the price (about €2000 EUR originally when new).
Built-quality is perhaps not at the level of the Toshiba dvd-player which is exceptional (minus average disc drawer) or my vintage Sansui.
The remote controller is exceptional, is anatomical for your (right) hand and includes a joystick for volume control)

uncooked said:
Guys in my opinion, stay the hell away from new harmon kardon!!!!!!

Ive been working in future shop for about a month now and they are pieces of crap!!! Everyone jokes about them, I have had some time to play around with them and have noticed the volume knobs on the front are EXTREMELY cheap. If you turn the knob fast (AT ALL) im talking like average speed when turning it up or down, it doesnt register and offen goes in the opposite direction.........

say your at -20 and you wanna turn it down really quick so you grab it and give it a quick twist. It goes to + 15 !!!!! max volume.

I personally HATE the stuff we have one in the demo room and you can absolutely crank it with top Polk stuff and it isnt very loud at all, and VERY distorted.

when an amp somes back its like 60 - 70 % of the time HK and we sell like 6 brands of amps so thats pretty bad.

new yamaha kicks some ass, cant go wrong with the new 5760 or 5790, built like tanks and pack some serious power. Im saving up for the 5760, cheapest quality amp ive seen with a full set of pre-puts.
Click to expand...
 
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