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Any information on vintage JVC / Victor / Jivico motor mounts?

tothmes

tothmes

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
As my next silicone motor mount project, I've been asked for making the ones for sixties and early seventies JVC et al turntables; basically the generation preceding the JL-xxxx generations. I would speculate this may have been the last generation of mechanical JVC tt:s built in-house; mostly based on what I've seen of the motor mounts and other details in the later models.

I've previously come across pictures of these parts, and noticed them as possible parts to add to my stock, but since they all are very rare where I live, I doubt I'll ever come across any live ones. Now that I've got the measurements for the parts and a willing test pilot, I'm about to start working on the first version.

The parts were used in several idler models, including srp-471, src-700, src-900, arc-15, and arc-15. My problem is the scarcity of techical info on this generation of machines. The ones I've listed are what I could find at VE. I know of the existence of some additional JVC/Victor iders, such as 5250, 5250, srp-467, SRP-47, and SRP-B20, but I have no idea of what kind of motor mounts was used in those. I have a hunch the same parts may also have been used in belt drives from the same era, but I haven't found any info on those. (Partly due to the download restrictions at VE; it will take some time to skim through them all).

The parts I'm after are these:
jvc_srp471_motor_assembly.jpeg

This is a shamelessly stolen photo from this VE thread about restoration of a SRP 471E-5 here: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=73165

[Edit: fixed a mixup of the parts] That's a funny one, by the way. As you can see in the photo it has two different types of grommets; in total five of the shorter ones, and two longer; three on the idler plate, and the remaining four on the motor mounting plate, making for a double insulation of the motor from the chassis; of course it has two idler wheels too.

What I'm currently after is the longer type, since that is what seems to have been used in less ambtiously designed decks with only three grommets. But of course I'll also make the shorter one too, should somebody need one.

[Edit: fixed a mixup of the part numbers] From what I've found the longer grommet has the JVC p/n M4728, called "Rubber bushing". The shorter one is 52992-1.

So, what I'd love to hear from you veterans are things like this:

Any other JVC models that may have used these parts? Perhaps even with part numbers from service manuals?

Has anybody met these parts in some other turntable brand? From a more modern, post 60s perspective they are a funny design; a hollow cylinder with a straight 6 mm ID, and small dimples at both ends for reducing the contact / vibration transmission area. This design would seem a bit lacking, since the cylindrical form doesn't offer an as good use of the rubber's lateral damping as the more common conical shape would have done. But on the other hand this may have improved the lateral stability of the motor. Also the unusually high thinner end with its dimples is a bit odd: normally that part of motor mounts shouldn't be in contact with any surrounding parts, hence not needing the height nor the dimples. (The motor mounting plate sits in the slot of the grommet, and then it all rests on the tip of the longer end; what would be in touch with the top end?). Has somebody here possibly seen in some other tt model what this part of the design may have been inteded for?

And of course any additional info or problems that I may have missed this early in the job.
 
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Interestingly, I just got the s/m for the JVC vc-9 belt drive, listing motor mounts called 52992-2 (as opposed to 52992-1 for the idlers). These look similar to the idler parts, but with a conical tip, just as I was speculating on the idler parts. It really seems the cylindrical shape on the idler parts was very much intentional, replacing a bit of damping for improved lateral stability required with the forces from the idlers.
jvd_vc-9_motor_sm.jpg

I also found an old thread here at AK on the belt drive JVC vl-8, showing photos of identical cylindrical grommets as on the idlers, so it seems a fact these parts were used at least in some early 70s belt drives too.
jvc_vl-8_motor.jpg


With these machines nowadays so rare , I really don't expect much of a rush of buyers for these parts. I'd still like to add them to my stock, but probably I'll make them in a kinda hybrid shape that should be an improvement for both types of decks.
 
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I replied to your similar post over at VE but that I'd share here too.

My SRP-B30E uses the bushing labeled 52992-1 in the service manual. It is a belt drive table and uses 3 for the motor mount. One is in near perfect condition but the other two are horribly smashed.

If you get around to making some I’d be interested in trying.



IMG_0460.JPEGIMG_0462.JPEG
 
Thanks for the link; I wasn't aware of those sorbothane parts. Interesting!

I've got the moulds for my parts made, just waiting for them to cure before casting my first batches. I'll pm you.
 
Version 0.1:
jvc_60-70s_motor_mounts_v0.1.jpg

Not copies of the originals, since I don't have any at hand. But should be functionally compatible, at least. I'll send some sets off to my test pilots this week.
 
I'll report back here after I've got my feedback from the testers. I must fail badly for them to not fit the srp471, or to not be an improvement from old deformed parts. That one uses seven grommets in two different shapes. Seems to have been a late 60s Japanese design fad; the Yamaha yp-500 belt drive family did so too, in a different setup.
 
This project has got stuck mid-air, so I'd need a bit of help from some vintage JVC owners.

I haven't heard back for some time now from any of the folks testing the longer isolators, so I can't know if the latest version of them does work or not. The shorter ones are confirmed to work as expected, but offering only those for sale seems a bit pointless.

I'd be very grateful if some good folks owning a deck using those parts would pm me, willing to test a set and report back to me within reasonable time. Relevant models I know of using these are src-900, srp-471, vc-9, and vl-8. I suspect there are others, but I haven't found any service manuals or other confirmation of this.

As things stand for now, I can send these test sets to USA, since they obviously would be given away for free. But I have no idea if I'll be able to sell anything there in the future due to tariffs and administrative fees on such shipments.
 
Still nothing new on the longer JVC motor mounts, sorry. Those parts are now on the back burner until I can find a suitable TT myself, unless I find someone willing to help me test the parts. The shorter ones are already available, if someone needs some. Also, I can now again ship to US, but with additional tariffs and fees.

But more to the point, I've got a question if someone owning a JVC JL-A3 would happen by:

I haven't found any pics online of the motor and motor mounts on the JL-A3, but from what can be seen in the service manual for it, the parts (#50) look like they might be the same as the short ones I've shown previously in this thread.

jl-a3_motor_mount_sm.jpg

If so, this model is built with the "classic" JVC parts, and not the (suspected) CEC ones as in JL-A1 and -2. I have no idea of whether this would be a hint of the previous generation - and the JL-A3 - possibly being the last one built in-house, by some other OEM builder, or just an older CEC built design. But differences in this kind of unassuming parts are often usable in that kind of archeology.

Could anybody take a look inside his/her JL-A3, and possibly even send a pic or two, perhaps even measurements, of the rubber parts of the motor mounts?

Btw, this is written in a bit of affect; I just missed out on one of those decks at an auction. Hoped to be able to check the parts out myself.
 
...answering my own question: JL-A3 does not have the type of motor mounts discussed in this thread - instead it has the same type as in many other CEC built decks, like most vintage belt drive Marantzes, Sony PS-1150, and JVC VL-5 - but not JL-A1. The poor auction house where I missed out one had it on three consecutive auctions where the highest bidders never turned up before I could lay my hands on it.

I'm still in need of test pilots for the longer old JVC parts... Just sayin.
 
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After several test pilots going missing in action, I've finally got enough of feedback on the taller grommets too. (The low type was already tested OK). So, the design part of this project is done, no further modifications needed.

If someone has any info on additional JVC / Victor / Jivico models from this era (late 60s - early 70S) I'd be very happy to know! This seems to be a very interesting but badly documented era in the Victor turntable history.
 
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...By the way, does anybody have any info on the actual maker of this era of JVC / Victor / Jivico turntables? The later 70s belt drives seem to have been CEC built, but could these belt/idler drives have been built in-house? The unique motor mount design could be a clue - I haven't come across anything similar anywhere else, while the later types seem to be common with some other CEC machines.
 
I’m pretty sure that I’ve seen mounting grommets like that for sale somewhere recently. Considering that some classic turntable motor mounts were off-the-shelf parts that have been in production for 70+ years, I would not be surprised if these were out there somewhere. Some of this stuff is hard to find unless you dig around in industrial supplier catalogs, but look at someplace like Johnston Controls. They at least somewhat resemble some very, very, VERY old design motor mounts available through JC that Emerson used as fan feet over 100 years ago.
 
Sam Cogley said:
I’m pretty sure that I’ve seen mounting grommets like that for sale somewhere recently. Considering that some classic turntable motor mounts were off-the-shelf parts that have been in production for 70+ years, I would not be surprised if these were out there somewhere. Some of this stuff is hard to find unless you dig around in industrial supplier catalogs, but look at someplace like Johnston Controls. They at least somewhat resemble some very, very, VERY old design motor mounts available through JC that Emerson used as fan feet over 100 years ago.
Click to expand...
There is one fellow selling the short type of the original grommets at that auction site. I don't know if they are NOS or something else, but you may have seen those.

But you are at least partially right. I think more or less all of the classic vintage US turntables were built with isolators from Lord; the QRKs, Gates, Fairchilds and whatnot. They even spilled over to Europe, with the grommets in Garrard Lab 80. But apart from those, the closest I think I've seen in European standard parts would be the motor mounts in Philips and the idler Thorenses (same types, but different sizes), and Lencos. All of the US parts can still be found in current catalogs from the shops taking over after Lord.

But I think the Japanese may be a bit different. At least with the generation after these Victors I think the global market for their turntables had become large enough to support a supplier market of their own, especially around the main brands and OEMs. Most of those have each their own types of grommets.
And if not, one would have to dig deep into 70s Japanese rubber catalogs to find any equivalent standard parts - those won't show up in the US catalogs.
 
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The potbelly mounts used by Fairchild, Scott, Pickering, Gray and a few others were not Lord. A decade or so back I ordered a batch from a Canadian industrial supplier, made by Hutchinson, the original manufacturer that has been in business for 80+ years.

Point being, there may be something equivalent or very close in a U.S. catalog. In the postwar rebuilding era, a lot of Japanese manufacturing was built on U.S. and European tooling.
 
That's interesting! I've only seen them described as made by Lord before. One more shop for me to look into, thank you!
 
,,,OK, "Hutchinson (formerly Barry Controls)" sorts it out. I've spent some time in their catalog...

I think you may be correct on the ball mounts, I've personally never come across any Lord-branded such parts, only ones from Barry/Huchinson. That Lord thing may be Internet rumors, with me just assuming I hadn't found an old enough Lord catalog yet.

On the other hand, variations of the isolators used by QRK, Gates, and those can be found in the catalogs of both, so those really seem to have been industry standard parts.
 
The paint markings (stripes of colors denoting stiffness and resonance) on original Fairchild, Pickering, and Scott mounts are very similar to those used on the Barry Controls/Hutchinson parts, which lends further credence to the notion that they were the original supplier.

I think the mounts that I’ve bought as fan feet were Barry products, though the design long predates Barry Controls. They’re somewhat similar to the JVC mounts in question.
 
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