AR 2ax Lack Of Bass

[alextremetj]

I was able to pick up a pair of 2ax's that were in great condition, but just needed the pots cleaned and restored. They seem to be an early model 2ax because the front grill was stapled on, and these have the cloth surround woofers. These are my first experience with AR speakers, but I have read many high remarks about them.

Overall, now that I have the pots cleaned, the speakers seem to be in great mechanical condition. The cabinets seem to be airtight, as the woofers take a full second to return after being carefully pushed in. I also made sure to use Mortite under the woofer when re-installing it.

Now for my issue. These things just don't seem to have much low end at all. I'm driving them with a 115 WPC Onkyo Integra amp, so there is plenty of juice there. At first I started with a pair of NLA's, then picked up a set of OLA's that I had to refoam. They all sounded great, especially when ran stacked up. They filled the room with great bass, even with the tone controls set in the middle, with no equalization.

With the AR's sitting in the exact spot where they Advent's were, the imaging is great, but bass is almost non existent. Everything is wired in phase as I have double and triple checked myself, hoping it would be something simple. Is there anything else I'm missing, or do AR's like to have some bass boost (equalization) behind them?

 

[KentTeffeteller]

The AR likes lower damping factor amplifiers. Try another amplifier or receiver, Try some different placements. The AR2Ax has good bass, but not the bass of the AR3.

 

[dr*audio]

I was driving my AR2ax's with a 40 watt kenwood amp, and it had no trouble driving them and I had plenty of bass. It didn't take my woofers a minute to move out when pushed in. I used rubber cement to coat the cloth surround on mine. Maybe someone used something too thick on yours or it dried up. Maybe you could soften it with some solvent but I am not sure what is safe to use that wouldn't loosen the glue. I am sure someone here knows.

 

[Fairlane]

Having had all of those speakers at one time or another I can tell you that bass tends to be heavy on the Advents so if you are use to that sound the AR's may seem more airy and clear. That said the 2ax's should be capable of deep bass. You did not mention if these are on the floor, on stands, in the corner etc.

They may be more critical of placement in the room where you have them. Also you are sure both of the woofers are working? not being cheeky, sometimes we over think problems . When I had my set they were on 18 inch stands about a foot from the corners of the room and they sounded great.

What kind of preamp are you using? Does it have a loudness button that is not on? When you removed the stuffing from the cabinets did you put it all back?
The tone controls also had gaskets that seal the shaft penetration, did those go back on? Do you have a different amplifier or receiver to test them on?

Just some ideas. Good luck!

I am sure other people more knowledgeable than myself will chime in soon with other suggestions as well.

 

[alextremetj]

Thanks for the quick responses guys!

From what I could tell, no one has ever been in these speakers before. No marks what so ever on or around the grills. Also, no marks around the woofer recess from someone trying to pry it free from the grip of the sealant.

All of the stuffing that I pulled from each cabinet was placed back in, as well as the thin tissue paper like sheet where the woofer sits. All of the drivers are working. I tested each one individually while I had them apart.

I should have recapped them while I had them opened up, but am I correct in thinking that even if the caps have drifted off of spec, they wouldn't effect the bass at all?

With the woofers out of the cabinets, the surrounds seemed very soft and supple. I really think I was the first person to ever crack these things open.

Fairlane, you have me wondering about the gaskets to seal the tone control openings. When I pulled the pots out, there was only the metal lock washer and nut. The pots I used were pulled from a junk pair of 2ax cabinets I was given. They also, had no sealing washer for the tone controls.

I have tried sitting the speakers on stands 12 inches from the ground, tried sitting them on top of my OLA's both horizontal and vertical, in corners, and pulled away from the walls.

The Onkyo integrated amp I am using is model A-8700. Supposedly one of the better models they made. It has no loudness controls.

I will try another amp and see if I can hear a change. Other then that, I may just switch back to my Advent's and get rid of these. :dammit:

 

[Fairlane]

Alex, those little gaskets are similar to a faucet washer, nothing fancy.
You might try a little latex caulk around the controls and see if that helps. It is worth a try and can easily be removed. Might not make that much difference but they should be sealed.

I used tube power on my set and Sansui 9090db. Both worked great with the AR's. Only sold mine to get a set of 3's.

Are they hooked up right. Wires should go to 1 and 2 with the wire jumper between 2 and T.

 

[audiojones]

...Everything is wired in phase as I have double and triple checked myself, hoping it would be something simple.

Take a 1.5 volt battery and touch the negative side to terminal 1 and the positive side to terminal 2/T. The woofer should push out when this is done. Now do the same to the other cabinet, and again the woofer should push out.

It is entirely possible that the woofers were mis-marked or mis-wired at the factory and the internal phasing of the woofer is wrong, so this quick battery test will confirm whether or not that is the case.

AR2ax should have lots of bass response even with the tone controls set flat (particularly the early version with the cloth surround cast aluminum woofers).

BTW - Please don't use rubber cement or any kind of caulk on the fabric surrounds. If you feel they must be re-sealed then use the compound that Roy C. developed (I believe it is still sold by vintage AR on fleabay).

 

[alextremetj]

So I spent some time playing around with these last night. I now have them directly in the corner of the room, on stands about a foot from the ground. After testing the polarity of the drivers (which were all wired fine) I broke out my old equalizer. After some testing, I found that with a bump in the lower bass frequencies, these really seem to come alive.

It just seems odd, that with such a little amount of EQ, they really start to sing! Anyway, I'm somewhat happy with them for the time being.

 

[Pandovski]

Seems like you have air leaks and bad caps. Those produce massive bass.

And they eat 115W integrated little children for breakfast.

 

[alextremetj]

Seems like you have air leaks and bad caps. Those produce massive bass.

And they eat 115W integrated little children for breakfast.

Would the caps mess with the bass, since there are no caps in line with the woofer driver at all? On the AR2ax, its just a inductor coil.

 

[Pandovski]

The bass is gone due to air leaks and general performance will suck if you still have the original wax capacitors.

Don't expect them to have Cerwin-Vega bass but they are certainly NOT bass shy speakers.

 

[Pandovski]

Would the caps mess with the bass, since there are no caps in line with the woofer driver at all? On the AR2ax, its just a inductor coil.

If you play them too loud, too long, on a weak amp, the tweeters will die, for sure. Are you a speaker collector, like jazz, classical music?

 

[alextremetj]

I like a lot of classical music, and older 50's and 60's music. Basically anything way before my time, as I'm 26.

I was planning to recap them, and will order some Solens or Daytons soon. As far as the air leaks are concerned, I will seal up the pot holes while I'm in there again, even though I can't seem to locate any air leaking from them. I have used test tones between 20 and 40hz to try and hear/feel any air leaking. Also, am I correct in thinking that if I had any leaks, the woofers wouldn't return nice and slow?

I'm just starting to get into the speaker collection hobby. I have redone two pairs of Advent's with great results so far.

I surely appreciate all of the advice.:thmbsp:

 

[RoyC]

I was planning to recap them, and will order some Solens or Daytons soon. As far as the air leaks are concerned, I will seal up the pot holes while I'm in there again, even though I can't seem to locate any air leaking from them. I have used test tones between 20 and 40hz to try and hear/feel any air leaking. Also, am I correct in thinking that if I had any leaks, the woofers wouldn't return nice and slow?

Alex,

If the woofers are returning slower than they would outside the cabinet, they are sufficiently sealed. Sealing pot holes won't increase the bass response. Likewise, new capacitors will not increase the bass response in the 2ax...though changing out the old wax block caps isn't a bad idea for other reasons. Those old caps are usually out of spec these days.

Assuming the cabinet stuffing is as it was, it is possible the old cloth surround sealant has stiffened a bit...but that is not usually a big problem.

Although an up-to-spec AR-2ax arguably has a more refined overall response than the Large Advent, it is not the equal to the LA in "big" bass response...which is more like the AR-3a in that regard.

Roy

 

[Pandovski]

+1 to what Roy said.

In smaller rooms the 2ax should be a better choice than large advent. As for air leaks goes I had those on my AR11s and the bass was a complete turd. Once I sealed everything nice and tight I got some really good meaty clean LF.

Try also different amplifiers. High current ones preferably.


Cheers