AT VM 95ML to AT VM 750SH...noticeable difference in sound quality?

triple20

triple20

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I currently have the AT VM 95ML and do enjoy it but I'm wondering if I'm missing any noticeable sound quality by not having a better cartridge on my tt.
Will there be a big enough difference in sound quality if I jump up to the AT VM 750SH?
Looking for a wow! type difference not a study the sound and try and decide if it sounds better difference.

Listening on a Micro Seiki DD 40 turntable
McIntosh C 504 pre amp
McIntosh MC 502 power amp
McIntosh ML1C speakers
McIntosh MQ 104 EQ

thank you
 
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UncleAng said:
The AT VM95ML is one of the best sounding and best value carts in existence. At 3 times the price you may discern some improvement but I'm not sure about the wow factor. Good luck.
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Thank you for your valued reply!
Was wondering if the return would be worth the price.
 
They will sound completely different because the generators and electrical specs of the bodies are totally different. The styli and cantilevers are also different. Any cart from the 500/700 series will be more sensitive to resistance and capacitance loading than the VM95 series. Compliance is also very different with the VM95s being around 13 CU and the VM500/700s being more like 23 CU by Western standards.

Whether you like one of these types of carts vs. the other is down to personal taste and how well it pairs with your gear. AFA "wow" factor goes, I cannot help you with that and I doubt anyone else can either. Sorry.

Personally I would not bother with Shibata styli unless you have a compelling reason to get one such as playing Quad records with a Quad decoder.
 
patient_ot said:
They will sound completely different because the generators and electrical specs of the bodies are totally different. The styli and cantilevers are also different. Any cart from the 500/700 series will be more sensitive to resistance and capacitance loading than the VM95 series. Compliance is also very different with the VM95s being around 13 CU and the VM500/700s being more like 23 CU by Western standards.

Whether you like one of these types of carts vs. the other is down to personal taste and how well it pairs with your gear. AFA "wow" factor goes, I cannot help you with that and I doubt anyone else can either. Sorry.

Personally I would not bother with Shibata styli unless you have a compelling reason to get one such as playing Quad records with a Quad decoder.
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Thank you very much for the useful info!
I have no interest in experimenting with quad records.
 
I think that there's a huge upgrade in sound, having the older version, the AT150MLX.

McIntosh phono pres likely won't show the difference, though. Something better is required for "wow" in vinyl.
 
triple20 said:
Thank you very much for the useful info!
I have no interest in experimenting with quad records.
Click to expand...
to offer a counter, ime the shibata on these at carts gets the musical detail you want from the groove without excess noise and therefore more quiet in the groove. im using the at33sa, at33ptg2, at150mlx, at150sa, at150ea/sa stylus, and signet(at high inductance generator) am50. the shibata tipped carts are my most enjoyed and involving. that said, if using the 4 coil mm generator, you still need to lower the load from 47k to smooth out the highs even with capacitance in range. at 150pf total, theyre still bright, even with the more mellow shibata. the am50 is the exception to that which must be because of the beryllium cantilever. the am50 stays flat in the high end unlike the 4 coil carts with the aluminum or boron cantilevers.
 
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cafe latte said:
I agree, the Shibata degrades quicker, has wider contact surfaces and shorter contact surfaces.
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AT's shibata actually has wider contact than the microline and should last slightly longer, but the side radius isn't nearly as sharp (.26 mil for the shibata, .12 mil for the microline).
 
Personally, I found some of the Shibata talk to be hooey. It was easy set up and I found (via adjustable arm height on the fly) that VTA made no difference that I could hear.
It was fuller sounding than the 2M Blue, retrieved more detail without being overly bright, and had nice deep bass without being too bloomy.
Instead of a WOW, you probably get more of a 'what was that?' or 'I never heard that before' kinda response.
This was coming off the Blue, an elliptical.
I thought it wasn't too far from the OC9XSL which I use now. Meaning that wasn't a large jump coming off the 750 but the special line contact is brighter.
Should you expect WOW going from the 95 to 750? Probably not if the 95ML is as good as they say.
I would think the 700xx series is there not because it sounds the same as the 95xx. Don't forget there is also the 500xx in-between.

Personally, the biggest jump in SQ I got was phono stage. That was a wow moment!
 
J. Rob said:
AT's shibata actually has wider contact than the microline and should last slightly longer, but the side radius isn't nearly as sharp (.26 mil for the shibata, .12 mil for the microline).
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The area of the Micro line is higher than the shibata so the Micro line or Micro Ridge will last longer than a shibata.
Also the shibata side radius gets wider as it ages causing distortion. The ml and MR the side radius does not increase with wear another reason they last longer than shibata. AT own numbers are Shibata 800 hours and the MR and ML being 1000. My own experience is Shibata is done after 600 hours.
Chris
 
J. Rob said:
I know the microline is technically superior, but my AT95E seems to sound best when using styli with a side radius of .3 mil. Full but detailed.
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This us more a limitation of the cart. MM do not have a great square wave so they can be hard edged especially if capacitance is not perfect for that cart.
An inferior stylus in this incidence which does not reproduce highs as well can sound better.
Chris
 
cafe latte said:
This us more a limitation of the cart. MM do not have a great square wave so they can be hard edged especially if capacitance is not perfect for that cart.
An inferior stylus in this incidence which does not reproduce highs as well can sound better.
Chris
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I have a 1 foot pair of BJC LC-1 going from turntable to the phono input of my receiver, maybe the capacitance is lower than recommended.
 
cafe latte said:
This us more a limitation of the cart. MM do not have a great square wave so they can be hard edged especially if capacitance is not perfect for that cart.
An inferior stylus in this incidence which does not reproduce highs as well can sound better.
Chris
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A strange hobby we have, where the better-sounding stylus can be referred to as inferior. I get what you're saying though; it reminds me of the Stereophile comment about stylus options for the V15 Type IV, where the theoretically more accurate hyperelliptical VN45HE was found to have "a somewhat hot high end," and all of their auditioners preferred the .6 mil spherical VN4G.
 
triple20 said:
I currently have the AT VM 95ML and do enjoy it but I'm wondering if I'm missing any noticeable sound quality by not having a better cartridge on my tt.
Will there be a big enough difference in sound quality if I jump up to the AT VM 750SH?
Looking for a wow! type difference not a study the sound and try and decide if it sounds better difference.

Listening on a Micro Seiki DD 40 turntable
McIntosh C 504 pre amp
McIntosh MC 502 power amp
McIntosh ML1C speakers
McIntosh MQ 104 EQ

thank you
Click to expand...

I would not rule out the VM540 cart, its quite the musical sounding cart. Better than the 95ML. The 750 may have more top end sparkle but does not have the midrange the 540 has.

If it were my call, I would pop for the 540 instead of the 750 and spend the difference on an EAR clone phono stage. Then route the output of the phono stage to your MAC pre Aux input.
 
J. Rob said:
I have a 1 foot pair of BJC LC-1 going from turntable to the phono input of my receiver, maybe the capacitance is lower than recommended.
Click to expand...

It could also be higher. What is the input capacitance of the receiver phono stage?

Note also that the older AT95 and the current VM95 have different electrical specs.
 
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