AU-20000 vs Pioneer SA-9800

[karsavuran]

Hi all,
I just bought a clean AU-20000. I just bought to sell but...
I have a fully recapped SA-9800 which is in (electrically) perfect condition. Also I have matching components TX-9800 CT-F1250 and SG-9800. And I love them. Thats why I would keep 9800 and sell AU-20000.
I also have a G-22000, which I also love.
I have never heard a AU-20000 and it would take some time to got it here in Turkey, so until that time I would like to hear your opinions about these three. Would be sonically different? Should I definitely keep AU-20000? etc.
best,
Ozan.

 

[Blue Shadow]

I believe the AU would change my main rig from that Pioneer stack to Sansui. The 20000 looks really nice, has the power and meters.

 

[pete_mac]

Hi all,
I just bought a clean AU-20000. I just bought to sell but...
I have a fully recapped SA-9800 which is in (electrically) perfect condition. Also I have matching components TX-9800 CT-F1250 and SG-9800. And I love them. Thats why I would keep 9800 and sell AU-20000.
I also have a G-22000, which I also love.
I have never heard a AU-20000 and it would take some time to got it here in Turkey, so until that time I would like to hear your opinions about these three. Would be sonically different? Should I definitely keep AU-20000? etc.
best,
Ozan.

To be honest, you should wait until the AU-20000 arrives and compare the amps yourself, in your system, in your room, and with your ears.

It doesn't matter what anyone out there on the internet thinks - you should keep what sounds best to you. You are very fortunate to be able to compare them back-to-back before making a decision!

The AU-20000 is a lovely amp, and I really like its sound. However, I have not heard a SA-9800. I've heard lesser Pioneers of that era and found them to be lovely, but brighter than Sansuis such as the AU-20000. The Sansui should sound a bit more laid-back than either the Pioneer or G-22000.

However... I look forward to hearing what YOU think when the AU-20000 arrives!

 

[pete_mac]

It's interesting that so many state that the Pioneer designs are "Brighter".
I would take that to mean that they are less capable of faithfully reproducing sound across the audio spectrum.
And that's what Sansui was good at, some say 'Best', -at honest and faithful reproduction based on
an uncompromising quest for reproducing sound without coloration while taking into consideration
the Fletcher–Munson curves and/or the equal-loudness contour - and it's correlation to human hearing.

-If Pioneer reproduces with a tonal tilt toward higher frequencies then it truly is not reproducing sound in an uncolored fashion.

Mind you, I suspect the difference is not grand but again and again those that have compared,
give Sansui Warm revues and Pioneer is said to be sharp or brighter.

To me, Sansui is warm due to it's ability to reproduce fairly flat frequency response well below/above any and all other manufacturers...
The G Serious receivers were capable of reproducing sound from dead short to 200,000 hertz (DC to Daylight) and it's the harmonics of 3rd, 4th, 5th order (and above) that aide Sansui designs in being able to accurately reproduce that which falls into our hearing range.

Of interest, I've seen/heard a great many amps which measure largely the same, yet have different sonic characteristics. Outright frequency response is not necessarily the determinant of the sound of an amplifier IMHO.

Further, the later Alpha Sansuis are flat, yet many fans of vintage Sansuis don't like them as they are too 'accurate' and not as coloured as the older Sansuis. This is despite a nearly identical frequency response. There are certainly other aspects of amplifiers which influence the sound (slew rates? distortion profiles? current delivery and power supply design? other circuit tweaks? unicorn voodoo magic?) Sansui definitely revised their circuits through the decades, that's for sure!

 

[Hyperion]

And don't forget that old chestnut 'voicing'

Subtle changes in the presentation of low, mid and high frequencies, and the balance between them, which doesn't seem to show up in measurement tests.

 

[smurfer77]

Those flat speaker responses of most amps are measured using an incomplete or unrealistic circuit. Realistic speaker load with multiple poles is missing. Most decent amps behave similarly... It is how they misbehave that separates them.

 

[pete_mac]

Those flat speaker responses of most amps are measured using an incomplete or unrealistic circuit. Realistic speaker load with multiple poles is missing. Most decent amps behave similarly... It is how they misbehave that separates them.

That is an excellent point good sir - spot on!

 

[smurfer77]

That is an excellent point good sir - spot on!

We all know it, but I think we forget out big the impact is of moving from resistive dummy load to real speaker loads. In that winter I rebuilt the Sansui AU-777A I started a project of measuring the frequency response of my sansui amps, with the view of having the data to simulate different amps on my portable device. However, the amps all measured, for the most part, flat except at the extremes with little different between amps. But they sounded so different with obviously different levels of bass! So I measured again with some Allison Four bookshelf speakers and they were wildly different. Change the speakers and it was different again. It's why I always mention which speakers I'm using when I do my amp comparisons. Speakers are a part of the circuit (unless you have stupid damping factor, in which case they are still a part of the circuit, but a negligible one)

 

[The Fuxtor]

I think the AU 20000 looks a step up in appearance as well

 

[smurfer77]

So you're assuming that Sansui used Antiquated test equipment and procedures in the 1970's?

Not at all. It was and still is standard to measure frequency response using purely resistive dummy loads. We still do it today (since everyone uses different speakers with impedance (i.e. with reactance) it makes sense to have that as a standard).

 

[karsavuran]

I think the AU 20000 looks a step up in appearance as well

to me just the opposite, definitely