audio is the opposite of computers

repo_code

repo_code

somewhere in the 20th c.
In computing, high-end expensive features become cheap and commonplace over time. In audio, previously commonplace stuff migrates to the high end. What gives?

If you want a computer capable of multitasking, or virtualization, or journaling filesystems, or networking, that was expensive fancy stuff 25 years ago and every freebie phone has it today.

In audio, if you want vacuum tubes, vinyl, high efficiency speakers, class A amplification, or even purely analog electronics, that puts you in the high end market now. In 1964 you'd get this in any maggot-box console.

I'm not sure what to make of this. Maybe the high end audio market is really the nostalgia market.
 
Register to hide this ad
If computers were audio, all those fancy computer features would be considered detrimental to the "computing experience" and you'd pay extra not to have them.
 
Most in 1964 would be lucky to have a mono AM radio to listen to. Take off your rose colored glasses.

There are also many smaller manufacturers that make much of what you describe for very reasonable prices, example: www.littledot.net/
 
repo_code said:
In computing, high-end expensive features become cheap and commonplace over time. In audio, previously commonplace stuff migrates to the high end. What gives?

If you want a computer capable of multitasking, or virtualization, or journaling filesystems, or networking, that was expensive fancy stuff 25 years ago and every freebie phone has it today.

In audio, if you want vacuum tubes, vinyl, high efficiency speakers, class A amplification, or even purely analog electronics, that puts you in the high end market now. In 1964 you'd get this in any maggot-box console.

I'm not sure what to make of this. Maybe the high end audio market is really the nostalgia market.
Click to expand...

I take your point, but the hi-end audio market is not all tubes and yesterday's technology. Even when it uses vacuum tubes, many of the theories of the basic circuits have been rethought and redesigned with better understanding behind them. The vacuum tubes are part of the whole, but not necessarily the improved part.

What I do agree with is that unlike the first computers, which are virtually useless in today's computing world (other than as collectibles), the oldest hi-end audio equipment can still be restored to original condition and may sound very good.

Consider the trajectory of consumer demand for both and it may shed some light on how they developed.

Consumers demanded cheaper audio, not necessarily better (talking about the general consumer market, not the audiophile market). Cheaper it got. This made the smaller market for the higher-end equipment less amendable to cost reduction through mass manufacturing techniques.

On the other hand, consumers demanded faster and faster computing. This led the market in that direction, which not only resulted in faster computers, but cheaper as well, as manufacturing achieved technical breakthroughs and major economy-of-scale cost savings.

The PC market never fragmented to any appreciable extend. There are differences in corporate server-type computers and consumer-grade computers, but in both, speed is still considered essential. The audio market did fragment; the major consumer demand was for cheaper, not better. The smaller niche market for better sound pursued that path, but did not gain the reductions in cost that higher production would have brought about.
 
BTW, there is plenty of interest in advanced, high-end DACs and other devices capable of handling streaming digital music at an audiophile-approved quality level. this and audiophile-approved Class D/T amps are probably the fastest growing market segments right now, at least for newly manufactured products.
 
If Asus could only count on selling a thousand laptops a year, I guarantee you they wouldn't cost $1500 each. I started as a mainframe operator back in the late 70s, and I recall being stunned when one of the programmers excitedly told me that he had just paid over a thousand dollars for his own PC kit : I was earning $110 for a 40-hour week. :eek:
 
The computer you really want is $2500. That number has held pretty steady for about 30 years now. I wonder what that number would be for audio.

(yes, you can get a nice computer for a lot less, but that is still pretty much the number for the most desirable setup).
 
repo_code said:
In computing, high-end expensive features become cheap and commonplace over time. In audio, previously commonplace stuff migrates to the high end. What gives?

If you want a computer capable of multitasking, or virtualization, or journaling filesystems, or networking, that was expensive fancy stuff 25 years ago and every freebie phone has it today.

In audio, if you want vacuum tubes, vinyl, high efficiency speakers, class A amplification, or even purely analog electronics, that puts you in the high end market now. In 1964 you'd get this in any maggot-box console.

I'm not sure what to make of this. Maybe the high end audio market is really the nostalgia market.
Click to expand...
Those consoles are not considered high end, and never will be. Yes many very high quality classic tube amps have been rediscovered in recent years to sound really fantastic. And the same thing has happened, to a lesser degree, with some of the very best idler-drive turntables of the past.

But what was inside of those consoles, by and large, was not anywhere near the best that was available back in its day. The equipment which gets people really excited is the stuff which was some of the very best that was available back in its day. Nobody wants a lousy old changer, but lots of people would love a Thorens TD-124, or Garrard 301. Likewise, old Macs, and Marantz command big money. A sherwood, far less so. And a magnavox, not at all.
 
botrytis said:
Mine was $899.00 with all the parts. $2500 is a ridiculous amount for a PC now a days. Unless you are doing special things with your PC, like graphic arts or something like that - no one has to spend that much.

Heck, doing email and the internet surfing, all you need is a $4-500 laptop.
Click to expand...

If all you're doing is email and web surfing anything will do, Then again an MP3 player and set of earbuds is all you "need" to listen to music. I don't think any of those sub 1000 computers are terribly desirable. especially when you consider the monitor(s) and other peripherals. I did say "the computer you WANT" not "the computer you can get by with.

Many people use their computer for many other uses and some of us still do real work that demands high performance. The cheap PC's will be throwaways in a year or two at best, especially since they have no resale value whatsoever.
 
I too built PC's for many many years, and I buy lots of cheap PC's for my office. But I do lighting design and 3d modeling and the two monitors on my desk cost nearly that much, though there are finally some decent monitors available. Sure I can build a cheap PC, but my total cost of ownership on my Macs are actually much lower in the long run. Hell, my 2006 Mac Pro sold for $900 a year ago. I have PC's at the office that are newer that I have a hard time giving away most of the time.

Of course this is supposed to be a fun discussion, no reason to turn it into a Mac vs PC or Value Police thread. There are plenty of them.
 
pretty sure it was headed there once I mentioned my Mac! Just trying to get it back ontrack to the Audio-Computer connection :D
 
It all depends on what's being mass-built. Tube amps, vinyl, etc. are an incredibly small market and need to charge more to make a profit, whereas things like computers are incredibly common and are being built on a massive scale, leading to more efficiency, automated mass production, and thinner profit margins.

Look at a wooden canoe vs. a computer. The computer is far more complex, made of more exotic materials, has more functionality, and is cheaper (often quite a lot cheaper). The major reason is because the development of the computer is more automated, efficient, and computers are sold in far higher numbers than wooden canoes.

Even so, I wouldn't say tubes, class A amps, and vinyl are all there is in high end audio. We've got DACs, high end PWM amps, high res digital, exotic driver designs, and high end headphones.
 
Whether you want to admit it or not an equivalent PC costs about half what the corresponding Mac does. This is not a judgment in any way. It's just the truth.
 
That is just not a true statement, but no sense in arguing that point, we'll just have to disagree as what you and I will consider "equivalent" will vary greatly. That's why we have choices. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom