AUX the same and PRE OUT?

[24Vboost]

Hi again.

I am in need of a preamp and my last one Yamaha CX600U had Pre Out so I hooked my power amp through that.

I think we can also use an "amplifier as a preamp" as long as it has Pre Out ... is this right?

I want to ask to verify I do not ruin anything, by thinking or buying an amplifier (if I cannot find a good pre) that has AUX and no PreOut's, should I stay away from amps that do not have Pre Out?

Thank you everyone for a great first day on here...I am trying to decide to keep my power amp/DAC/pre system running music from my desktop (win 7) or Stereo Receiver (Pioneer VSX 21txh)/DAC to computer?

My issue is in my last post, was about getting my sound-card to be recognized (assigned) to this confusing Pioneer amp (too many hookups to look at - must break it down - it is the programming or assigning that is the fun part)!

Thanks again!

 

[HiFiThor]

The tape outputs and pre-outs are not the same. The tape outputs are fixed in output, not adjustable, the pre-outs are variable according to the volume control.

It is getting harder and harder to find an integrated amp with has pre-out/main-in jacks. This type of amp has dedicated RCA jacks on the back with jumpers connecting the two. Most of the newer integrated AV receivers have pre-outs only. This of course allows for use of external power amps but does not allow you to use the power amp in the receiver for anything else. In this case you usually don't hook any speakers to the receiver because you are using an outboard amp. My brother struggled with this problem with his Bose 901's. His receiver has pre-outs so he has to plug the Bose EQ in between the pre-outs and the external power amp input.

Using computers to manage you music is OK but generally you have to find a happy medium between the volume control on the computer and the amps.

 

[24Vboost]

Thank you for that input (no pun)!

If all goes well I might be in possession of a pre then I am selling the new stereo receive I just bought as it is a bit much to get my mind to accept the sound card connection.

I am using all RCA for all my connections:

I have a Nikko Alpha II - still trying to find a binding post that rotted off (black) - bought ones from China and of course the thread I got right it is the body of it will not fit right.

So, what I had going before I sold last week and now miss it (yes, expensive change of mind) - Computer > DAC > Yamaha Pre (with sub connected) > Nikko A II (with Bose 301's V and Infinity SM 105's in parallel to the amp) ran nice and believe it or not cool too.

I turn of this Pioneer and it is a bit warm with nothing going on! Ah, the vintage taught me a lesson.

So, I sold my DACmagic 100 for $160 CDN it was mint all original box and all, went to Crutchfields just paid $270 (white one this time woohoo), and I sold my Yamaha preamp for $150 CDN now tough to find one even close to that in very nice condition!

I am reading on the voltage output on pre's, some say the voltage may make your amp sound louder some say it is not important...the Yamaha I had was 8V max...

 

[rlisin]

To add to HiFiThor's info above, when looking at integrated amps also be careful about amps from the 80s and 90s. Some of them have IN/OUT jacks that have connecting jumpers and look exactly the same as PRE OUT/MAIN IN (which you need), but are actually EQ or sound processor loops that are exactly the same as tape loops, they just sometimes don't have a switch assigned to them - hence the jumpers. Meaning that they are not at the end of the preamp section of the integrated amp, but right behind source selector and tape monitor switches, before volume control, tone control and filters. Those are useless for your purposes as well. A few examples, so you can look at the pictures and see what it looks like: Harman/Kardon HK 6550 (no jumpers), Grundig V 210 (jumpers), Marantz PM451 (jumpers), Marantz PM453 (jumpers).

You need an amp that has outputs marked exactly PRE OUT. If it has a different marking, better ask here first. If it's something like EQ, PROCESSOR, SOUND PRO - that's not what you need.

 

[24Vboost]

Hey thank you, photos do help the best, when I can see what someone is explaining it will be more absorbing for sure! I will look at that for sure. Right now my Nikko Alpha II does not have a volume control so I was using a Yamaha CX600U and the DACMagic 100 in the chain...I would then have my Polk 10 100w powers sub hooked in and using my desktop to use for music, and I remember that I used a USB jack from the computer to the DAC this way I did not need to use Toslink like the other members where trying to tell me on hooking up this Pioneer VSX 21txh stereo receiver (instead of using the vintage gear - but I am going back to that and re-selling this Pioneer i just got two days ago - too much to try to figure out on assigning the output on the front the manual really does get get too specific to answer my quest - tough to find the answer on that)!!!

 

[24Vboost]

Here is my minor issue with the Nikko Alpha II amp (just learning how to put a pic up)...I am looking for a binding post for it but the ones I got from 'China" well those were useless!



And here is the inputs for the back so I run the preamp into these ... I have the original binding post but the wire will not stay on we as it is hard to tighten without the post material...

 

[24Vboost]

I forgot to show the Polk Amp that I put in the chain of vintage set up I cannot remember off the top but I think this went to my Yamaha CX600U pre so I was able to use the red/white without putting into a "Y" adapter etc...

So, I missed this set - thinking I could use the DAC off the Pioneer VSX 21txh and sell my DACmagic 100 and pre to get some money...but figuring out the Pioneer is somewhat tough for me to get working...and I am not so sure that use it a a Pre/DAC that I am able to get the DAC features off it...as it has the Wolfson for music and BurrBrown for movies or visa-versa

Here is the back of the Pioneer off the Net - hope the thumbnails allow you to see them in actual size ... just learning this forum stuff to send photos in my explanations!!!

 

[rlisin]

Well, you can definitely use the Pioneer as a DAC and preamp. If you connect your computer to it via a digital input (whichever you use) and take the signal from its PRE OUT, the Pioneer will work as DAC. I know that setting up AVRs can get confusing as hell. On the plus side, you set it up once, then you just use it. It is a bit much for the functionality you need though. Also, I don't think it can work as a USB DAC for your PC, USB functionality seems to be limited to playback of photos and music files from iPods, memory sticks and the like. You'd have to use a Toslink, coaxial or HDMI connection to use the Pioneer as a DAC.

Missing binding post - maybe try to find a short screw with a thread that fits and use that to secure the cable. It will not be pretty, and you will need a screwdriver every time you need to change something, but it will work.

 

[24Vboost]

Well, you can definitely use the Pioneer as a DAC and preamp. If you connect your computer to it via a digital input (whichever you use) and take the signal from its PRE OUT, the Pioneer will work as DAC. I know that setting up AVRs can get confusing as hell. On the plus side, you set it up once, then you just use it. It is a bit much for the functionality you need though.

Missing binding post - maybe try to find a short screw with a thread that fits and use that to secure the cable. It will not be pretty, and you will need a screwdriver every time you need to change something, but it will work.

Yes, I actually have the original, but I have a Nikko 130, was in pristine condition, I tried to 'yank' one of the posts out to try to put in this Alpha II and you do not want to know what the hell it took and by the time I got it out, it was not recognizable...I sure need to find one, up here there is no one with this stuff, the China ones I got I might be able to trim the bolt shorter and take the pieces apart to get them to be close to the original...I was going to make my own plate with newer/better binding posts which I will do later, but thanks for the McGiver solution!!

 

[24Vboost]

Well, you can definitely use the Pioneer as a DAC and preamp. If you connect your computer to it via a digital input (whichever you use) and take the signal from its PRE OUT, the Pioneer will work as DAC. I know that setting up AVRs can get confusing as hell. On the plus side, you set it up once, then you just use it. It is a bit much for the functionality you need though. Also, I don't think it can work as a USB DAC for your PC, USB functionality seems to be limited to playback of photos and music files from iPods, memory sticks and the like. You'd have to use a Toslink, coaxial or HDMI connection to use the Pioneer as a DAC.

Missing binding post - maybe try to find a short screw with a thread that fits and use that to secure the cable. It will not be pretty, and you will need a screwdriver every time you need to change something, but it will work.

rlisin - Where would a person out the sub with a red and white output and a DAC to a Yamaha amp like the AX 630 or something like that? I am guessing CD for the DAC and AUX for sub (Polk 10 100W from BestBuy)?

The preamp was crazy on eBay so I backed out...the guy really could not test it and it was getting too high in price!

 

[rlisin]

Erm... You seem to confuse inputs and outputs a lot.

CD, AUX, TUNER, TAPE IN, MAIN IN in an amp - inputs
PRE OUT, TAPE OUT, speaker binding posts in an amp - outputs
Digital sockets in a DAC - inputs (usually, but some DACs also have a digital output)
Analogue L/R RCA sockets in a DAC - outputs
Red and white LINE IN RCA sockets, SPEAKER LEVEL INPUT binding posts in a subwoofer - inputs
SPEAKER LEVEL OUTPUT binding posts in a subwoofer - outputs

You connect outputs to inputs. Connecting inputs to inputs does not make sense.

A DAC supplies signal to an amp or preamp, so you want to connect your DAC to your integrated amp's or preamp's input, so yes, CD input will work.

A subwoofer takes signal from an amp or preamp, so you want to connect your subwoofer to an output - so no, AUX does not work because it's an input.

Also, you want to connect your subwoofer to a regulated output so that the amp's or preamp's volume potentiometer can control the volume of both subwoofer and speakers. In a Yamaha AX 630 the only option is to connect the subwoofer to speaker outputs with speaker cables, not because that Yamaha amp does not have a PRE OUT (regulated output). The ACCESSORY connectors on the rear panel of AX 630 are a sound processor loop (which I described in post #4 above), they are before the tone and volume control. They will not work.

Polk PSW10 has speaker level inputs, so it can be connected this way (with speaker cables).

 

[24Vboost]

Erm... You seem to confuse inputs and outputs a lot.

CD, AUX, TUNER, TAPE IN, MAIN IN in an amp - inputs
PRE OUT, TAPE OUT, speaker binding posts in an amp - outputs
Digital sockets in a DAC - inputs (usually, but some DACs also have a digital output)
Analogue L/R RCA sockets in a DAC - outputs
Red and white LINE IN RCA sockets, SPEAKER LEVEL INPUT binding posts in a subwoofer - inputs
SPEAKER LEVEL OUTPUT binding posts in a subwoofer - outputs

You connect outputs to inputs. Connecting inputs to inputs does not make sense.

A DAC supplies signal to an amp or preamp, so you want to connect your DAC to your integrated amp's or preamp's input, so yes, CD input will work.

A subwoofer takes signal from an amp or preamp, so you want to connect your subwoofer to an output - so no, AUX does not work because it's an input.

Also, you want to connect your subwoofer to a regulated output so that the amp's or preamp's volume potentiometer can control the volume of both subwoofer and speakers. In a Yamaha AX 630 the only option is to connect the subwoofer to speaker outputs with speaker cables, not because that Yamaha amp does not have a PRE OUT (regulated output). The ACCESSORY connectors on the rear panel of AX 630 are a sound processor loop (which I described in post #4 above), they are before the tone and volume control. They will not work.

Polk PSW10 has speaker level inputs, so it can be connected this way (with speaker cables).

dyslexic true story! okay that is quite the confusing but awesome amount of time you put into this one and it is appreciated very much! Thank goodness I drew a diagram on how to connect everything on my last system! I guess it's like accounting, the debit goes on the credit side when....but then the credit is a debit only if.....really sad!! ha ha

Oh, wow that is really messing me up after reading it, but since it is new to my knowledge it will take me a bit to visualize this I will find the photos and just look them over and maybe print them out and draw some pretend connections to practice the info, but thank you very much. I wonder if I can scan the diagram I did and upload it to what I did have.

The seller(s) are firm on their price and a bit rude about it so, so much for trying...the offers were not far off theirs it is the shipping that is the issue! Okay, back to eBay the jerk that sold me the Kenwood Basic C1 is going on holidays for 3 weeks and then says they will send it, not good to wait over 5 weeks for something like that unless you shop in China....trying to get my money back but they insist!

 

[rlisin]

You can look for less known preamps from the early 80s that are really good too, like Tensai, Philips, Sanyo Plus. They will probably be cheaper.

Sorry to hear about the Kenwood situation. You're absolutely right, this amount of waiting time should be clearly mentioned in the description.

 

[24Vboost]

Thanks, yeah it was not posted on the auction...funny it was $200 with free shipping and it had make an offer...so I tried $15 less and it would not accept...well what the heck...so I just paid it all, but the funds were refunded and I think he will not do that again...nightmare lately on eBay.

So, I am once again needing a pre quickly but from this last experience not too quickly!