Biggest isn't always Best

N

nickv

New Member
Hello fellow Sansui enthusiasts. I have a small collection of vintage Sansui amps and receivers here in Kent, England and wanted to share my experience with you all.

I have these amps:
Sansui AU-D9 serviced and recapped
Sansui AU-717 serviced and recapped
Sansui AU-6900 serviced and recapped
Sansui AU-3900 untouched

These receivers:
G4700
5000
310

My hi-fi is in a large square room. I use renovated JBL L-96 and JBL L-50 vintage speakers.

Of all these, by some distance, the best sounding is the AU-6900 amplifier. I'm not saying the others are bad, far from it, but that elusive 'synergy' is there with the AU-6900. It cost me less than half of some of the other amps.

I'm toying with the idea of trying a vintage Luxman at 3 times the price, but I know it won't sound 3 times as good...
 
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I think the speakers you pair an amp with are important, as they dynamically react to the amp. Especially critical with lower powered amps.

I figured this thread would be about a 555A, 2000x, or 117!

6900 is no slouch, what is it, 60 watts?

Congrats though, and I agree
 
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Yes about 60 watts. I guess that was is so interesting about hi-fi . Some things work great and some things disappoint. And big $ doesn't always equal top sound. The good thing about Vintage Sansui though is that they look lovely and if they are working they generally sound good.
 
I have the AU-20000, the AU-7900, and the AU-3900. As well I have a Yamaha AX 592 (100 watts) and an AX 490 (85 watts). I also have a Kenwood receiver but we won't go there. The three Sansuis are currently in circulation while the Yammies are in storage at the moment.

All three Sui amps are hooked up to different speakers. So making comparisons is difficult. I will never part with the 20000 because of its looks and it is a serious piece of iconic gear. I have also had it since new, (in the family). The AU-7900 is my favourite day to day amp and I will never part with it either. It is more flexible than the 20000, doesn't weigh as much, and there is no way I need the power delivery of "the beast". The AU 3900 is a question mark in my mind. I have heard it sounding amazing on someone else's speakers when he was servicing it. (Your 3900 is due for a service if it hasn't been done yet.) But on my bedroom set-up, I have not been overly impressed with the AU 3900 sound. But giving all three amps a real test and work-out would make my wife and the dogs go insane.

But A-B comparisons would be essential for me in judging the amps side by side, and I am really not set up to do it. People dis Yamaha products saying they're bland flat and boring - lifeless even, but I thought the direction of later Sansui equipment was designed to be that way. I will take their word for it. I have had the feeling that during the demise years of affordable Sansui equipment in the 1990s their market was grabbed by the Yamaha Natural Sound philosophy. Yamaha products tend to look like late 80s Sansui equipment. I would love to compare a late Sui amp with a Yamaha of similar vintage. But I probably never will. (I would also like to hear how the later generation Sansuis would compare with the AU-20000. But I would be surprised if I could hear the difference). Unlike a lot of people here on AK, I have had very little experience with hearing other brands and other models within brands. I have no friends with impressive set-ups either.

Of the five amps, I would part with the AX 490 and the 3900, keeping the other 3 (the AX 592 has a remote which is missed with the Sansuis). I am trying to give away the Kenwood, but even for low $$ a lot of equipment can be hard to get rid of.

All this equipment is probably more exalted than my aging ears can hear. And I suspect the weakest link in Hi Fi systems is still the speaker systems and their placement. I also feel the brain quickly adapts to differences in audio delivery, and if the concessions are minimal, you tend to believe you have the best sounding stereo no matter what you're listening to.
 
Turds and Diamonds are available from all manufacturers. Sometimes the simpler circuits can sound downright amazing if they were designed properly. At one time I had 4 or 5 receivers from same manufacturer from same year, I liked the lowest powered one the most and that is after restoring the top 3 in that lineup but that is a rare occurrence. A lot of times its the 40 to 60 watters that I prefer but its not uncommon for the TOTL to blow the others away. Gotta try a few and see for yourself or you will never know. It was easier to try out and swap gear before the run up in prices thats for sure.
 
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Are any of these pieces restored or are they all original? Unless they have all aged the same or have all been restored to original condition it's not a fair comparison. It's likely that the one that has aged most gracefully will sound the best.

- Pete
 
100% agree: any comparisons or appraisals of older gear need to be restored examples.

I have a 3900 & it totally needs a rebuild. It's only listenable with the loudness switch on, otherwise no bass at all.
 
The more you spend, the more you expect, and for me bigger & fancier doesn't always translate to more enjoyment. I have a modest collection of the older 70's amps, nothing too spectacular but all recapped, fuse resistors changed where applicable & re-transistorised if the originals are on the top 10 bad list : AU5900, AU6600, AU7900, AU-517, AU-555A, 331, 551, 771 , although the receivers are still all running the original main filter caps which I need to get around to doing.

I had a AU-D9 which I sold because I found it completely uninvolving, and a AU-4900 I sold which was fantastic but the AU-5900 sounds better, and an AU-6900 I sold because the AU-7900 is simply better. Also just sold a 661 which was spectacular.

The biggest bang for the buck for me was the 661. How is it possible that cheap & modest receiver sounded so good ?

My favorites & best sounding to my ears ? The AU-7900 & AU-5900
My least favourite ? The AU-555A & AU-517. The 555A (fully restored as per Lestereo guide) is to too bright sounding, & the AU-517 while very impressive seems to lack the warmth of the previous series.

I also have a Marantz 1060 I really like if you push it a bit. Mine has been fully restored thanks to the knowledge on AK and also a Kenwood KA-8150 I recapped & really like.

For all recent recaps I have stopped using wima film caps and reverted to Nichicon UKL's (for low leakage originals) or UFG's except for 0.47uf subs where I stick to film. I personally much prefer the sound using the electrolytic caps over film. Been a bit of a revelation really. Remplaced most wima films in my AU-7900 & can't say I regret it. Sorry to be such a flat earther.......
 
I've settled on my permanent setup and I don't think it would qualify as "big" by any "audiophiles" definition:

Sansui 8080DB and a pair of AR4x's.

Couple Dual tables (1228Q and 1249) and a Sony 50 CD "jukebox" player.

There's a Pioneer CT-F750 in there for cassettes, but it needs a good rebuild as the motor is running slow or there's something going on with the 500-odd belts it has in there. Or maybe it's a roller/capstan issue. I'm in no rush to take it apart, I just don't listen to cassettes much anymore.

Last is a little box that will stream bluetooth from my phone to an aux input on the 8080DB when i want it.

8080Db is rebuilt and the AR4x's have been gone through, re-sealed, re-dopped cloth surrounds and pots cleaned. I left the older caps in place because they sounded fine to me on playback and no visible signs of leakage, damage, etc.

I've got other receivers/amps (Pioneer, Akai, Onkyo, Luxman, etc) but the Sansui is my daily driver with those "modest" AR bookshelf speakers. The sound just hits that "just right" zone for me.

The other amps/receivers are sitting in the storage room upstairs. They sound good when hooked up, but the 8080Db just edges them all out to my ears.

I just don't feel the need to go any "bigger", I'm happy with how it all sounds together.

About the only other receiver I often feel like getting out is my Sansui 350. It was my daily driver before the 8080DB and I had purchased it from the original owner who had it since 1969. He had all the paperwork and even the original box, right down to the handwritten stereo shop receipt when he bought it. Not a mark on it anywhere. Only 18 watts per channel, but it just sounds really good. 18w per channel and it only stats to loose out to the 8080DB when the volumes get past about halfway on the 8080DB. The 350 will clip long before the 8080DB even starts breathing hard, but that's to be expected with the power differences between the two. But at the modest volumes I usually play music at, they're pretty close to dead even. I actually have a second set of AR4x's that need a rebuild and I may find a place to set them up with the 350, just for nostalgia's sake if nothing else.

Bigger isn't always better is soooo right!

:)
 
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Hate to be a buzz kill for all you low powered audio fans, but bigger is best.
The myth or missconception that big power units don't produce great sound is completely false.
The very best sounding amps I have are all over 130 to 160watts and I expect my 300 watt Sansui to be right up there as well.
The lower powered amps I have sound great too. Some come close to equalling the big guns, but not quite.
 
I don't want go as far as @DB-7, bigger is always better. In my situation I do end up appreciating TOTL models more. Up to now the same with more power.
I do think our expectations also play into this. When we know we have more power then needed we are confident about this and expect superior performance, same for TOTL models.
On the other hand we can be pleasantly surprised by a low powered amplifier because we have low expectations and they are surpassed by the performance.
 
I think it really depends on your specific situation, including the speakers you pair with each system and perhaps most importantly the room. For small rooms and near field listening, you may find a lower powered unit to work great. For a very large room, higher wattage may be necessary to create enough sound to fill the room. In my experience, many lower wattage amps played through large-ish speakers in a small-ish to medium sized room sound better than I would expect, until I start to crank up the volume (beyond what many might need). That's where they start to fall apart. Comparing that to, say, my AU-D11, there's no competition. The D11 can produce tons of clean, beautiful sound at high volumes. I only really notice how loud it is if I attempt to talk to someone. It's so clean and un-fatiguing that it's almost dangerous (to the healthh of my aging ears).
 
This is all certainly in the ear of the listener but I’d encourage anyone who hasn’t to listen to a restored lower powered Sansui through very sensitive speakers - like in the 100dB range. The ease and grace is magic! Not to say that the fierce power and speed of a proper big block Sansui doesn’t illicit a religious experience either though. But sensitive speakers and simple circuits are something to behold.
 
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Jefft91 said:
I think it really depends on your specific situation, including the speakers you pair with each system and perhaps most importantly the room. For small rooms and near field listening, you may find a lower powered unit to work great. For a very large room, higher wattage may be necessary to create enough sound to fill the room. In my experience, many lower wattage amps played through large-ish speakers in a small-ish to medium sized room sound better than I would expect, until I start to crank up the volume (beyond what many might need). That's where they start to fall apart. Comparing that to, say, my AU-D11, there's no competition. The D11 can produce tons of clean, beautiful sound at high volumes. I only really notice how loud it is if I attempt to talk to someone. It's so clean and un-fatiguing that it's almost dangerous (to the healthh of my aging ears).
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I’d say thats a fair assessment.

:)
 
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