Break-in or Burn-in.....Hogwash?

Jeff M

Jeff M

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Ok, just got my new Audio Art IC's and a few speaker cables as well and they are fantastic so far:yes: . I redone my whole system:sigh: I was informed that around 100 hours is the norm for burn-in time on these. What would I expect to hear or not hear during this time? Never owned any new cables, so it is a new leap for me(albeit an expensive one). So........burn in real or BS?
 
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I've noticed with new cables the dramatic difference lies within the first 2-4 hours, the highs sound a little acerbic and edgy, followed by smoothing period, followed by firming of the bass and a more open soundstage many hours later. Very similar to amps breaking in.
 
I have also heard many cables "break in". That includes interconnects, speaker cables and even power cords. Shocking, what?

But what's the big deal? They're gonna "break in" when you play music anyway.

I guess you can view what they are saying as "Don't worry if they sound harsh at first. They'll break in over 100 hours or so and they'll sound great afterwards".
 
I too have noticed burn-in periods for new some components. Certain capacitors really come tome mind, but Cables can do the same thing to a lesser extent too.
 
If an expensive pair of speaker cable gets broken-in in a forest, does anybody hear?

I think the point of this forum is that anything that can potentially play a role in better music playback isn't "hogwash".
 
I agree 100% that cables do make a big difference, I was just asking for opinions on if they really do "improve" over a certain time frame .:rolleyes: I guess you have no opinion on that?
 
The burn-in time is recommended so by the time the period is over you've forgotten what the old setup sounded like. Also, you'd feel guilty returning them for credit after you've had them that long.
 
My ears aren't as refined as only the finest McIntosh listener's ears are.:rolleyes:
However, I have to wait around 30 minutes for my ears to adjust to the tonal formalities of the music.
I never noticed a cable break-in, but then again, I use some crappy azz cables by a McIntosh user's standards.
Average Joe's Radio Shack Gold series and monster 12g speaker wire.
Maybe one day I will invest in new cables($50 range each max.), but I can't justify that at the moment.

However(2) there is the fact that fresh wire needs time for the electron paths to form, so it isn't BS. Just some of us don't notice or care.:scratch2:
 
I remember seeing a device years ago (early 1990s) that claimed to "scientifically burn-in" cables in the optimum manner, within a greatly reduced period of time. You attached the cables to the device, turned it on and left it alone for perhaps a day or two, and the cable was "fully broken in". I think it generated white noise, or perhaps swept through the frequency range from low to high and back repeatedly, at the equivalent of very high volume levels, to force the wires to "burn in" faster. I haven't seen it in years, and don't recall the name, but maybe here will know what I mean. It seemed expensive to me, for something you'd use once (only) per cable, just to achieve something that would come after a time, anyway. Maybe others thought so, too, and that's why I haven't seen one in years(?).
 
At one point they thought a wire with absolutely no losses would be impossible, now we have superconductors, essentialy a perpetual motion device where electrons will flow indefinately. At one point no one thought that cryogenic treatment will change the structure of metals but it does and has many applications today including racing engines, firearm barrels and many more, evidently even audio. At one point we used to burn whale oil in lamps and laughed our heads off at the Wright brothers as they attempted to defy gravity like birds... Oh yeah, we also thought that cables do not change the sound and didn't believe in break in either...:D
 
My opinion is that it is hogwash...but I don't mind being wrong. I am a techie. I can hear differences in cables, both speaker and line, and hear improvements in Bi-wire. I cannot hear directional differences in cables with arrows, or any benefit from burning in. Warming up electronics maybe, but not wire. It just doesn't make sense. I think a previous poster hit the nail on the head. Burn in gives the listener time to get past their preconceptions of what a system change will sound like.
 
Maybe not the best analogy...

PHC1 said:
... we ...laughed our heads off at the Wright brothers as they attempted to defy gravity like birds... Oh yeah, we also thought that cables do not change the sound and didn't believe in break in either...:D
Click to expand...
I guess the "we" you refer to would be the naysayers who thought man would never fly. They may have based their opinions after observing failed attempts of people who didn't understand the priciples of flight. Why did the Wright's succeed where others failed? They didn't rely on assumptions. Instead they did scientific experiments based on some understanding of physics. They didn't risk their lives on how they wished mechanical objects behaved; rather they based it on how they could prove mechanical objects behaved.


As far as needing to break in cables, it should be easy to prove or disprove. For us to perceive an audible difference, the behavioral characteristics of the cable would have to change in a fairly substantial way. We have instruments capable of measuring changes far more subtle than what we can audibly perceive. All we have to do is various electrical measurements of behavioral characteristics of which we have known and understood for many, many years. Measure the wire before break in, then after break in. If the break in has caused a change we can perceive, it can be measured. Anything less is alchemy.

Doug
 
CharlieBee said:
Wondered if it was the ears or brain that burned-in or broke-in?

Charlie
Click to expand...

Nope (or... not for me, at least).

When I bought the power cords, I played them for 1/2 hour and then gave up. Ouch!

So I burned them in by leaving them connected to my DAC for a few days. Much better! :)
 
I think there's merit to both sides of the discussion... I've certainly added and subtracted elements from my system that improved and or worsened the sound of that system. In the same breath, I've also changed components that I perceived as everything from strangely different, to down-right unpleasant, that subsequently became favorites, even cornerstones of my favorite set-up.

Do I think there's a mechanical concept for burn-in? Depending on the component, yes I do. I would be willing to swear in a court of law that tubes improve from new to 100 hours or so. I personally don't like the sound of a brand new stylus, much preferring one that has 50 to 100 + hours on it (and that's a stylus bought to replace an existing one of the same model).

Capacitors? I dunno, I vaguely understand the concept of "forming", but I couldn't say with any degree of certainty if the "improvement" in speakers I've recently recapped is anything more than my ears gettting used to the new crisper, sound. I CAN say that recapping an older speaker will definantly alter the sound I've grown used to, but once I've listened to it for a dozen hours or so, my memory of the "original" sound grows so dim that I would be hard pressed to recall what they formerly sounded like.

This is one of those questions that IMO cannot be quantitatively answered. In the end the individual listener must be the final judge. No mechanical measure can determine (yet anyway) that a piece of gear will be pleasing to a particular person. I feel sure that each of you can think of at least one piece of gear that has a huge following, that you don't like, and wouldn't own. It doesn't mean the piece of gear is crappy, just that you don't like it, and that (in the end) is all that matters.
 
I use standard RCA connectors available everywhere... I think Dollar Store even sells them for exactly $1.00. I also use 16ga. speaker wire available from everywhere (I think I got mine at Radio Shack).

Personally, I cannot image "incredible" differences in sound from high dollar inter-connects and speaker wire. A little difference, perhaps, but not enough for me to justify spending $1,000.00 on cables and wire. I think when you start spending a lot of money on anything the placebo effect kicks in and you "think" you're hearing something you're not. Human ears just aren't that good, really, which is a shame!

This is just my personal opinion and everyone else is, of course, entitled to theirs!. If you believe expensive cables and wire provide better sound, then you are right... but so am I :)
 
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