C53 vs. C2700 - I can't decide!

C

canonken

New Member
Hi,

New here, and would love some wisdom.

I have a year-old MC275 which I plan to keep forever, and using my 7 year old MA7900 as a preamp now. My plan is to buy a C53 or C2700 and sell the MA7900.

On the amp side, like I said, I have a MC275, but also a Decware UFO (little 2 watt SET amp), and plan on something like a Pass XA25 or First Watt as well. I could also see getting one of the larger McIntosh SS amps down the road. Point being, I plan to use this preamp with a wide range of amps, SS and tube. 95% of my listening is streaming or movie/TV watching, with some lights-off, eyes-closed vinyl sessions in between. This is a do-all system and often it is on from 7AM to 10PM.

Speaker-wise, main speakers are a pair of larger Sonus Faber towers and a pair of small full-range horn-loaded towers. Strongly considering something like a Zu Audio Dirty Weekend. I could also see myself trying a pair of Magnepans. So a lot of different speakers now, in the future.

I can't decide between the C53 and C2700.

C53 'makes sense' because I am doing mostly digital audio as my source, I have tube amps if I want to 'take the edge off', I don't have gear or speakers that needs the 'edge' taken off, I plan to run this all-day, every day, etc. I also like the idea this can be my Switzerland - a neutral, objective piece where I could add things like quirky tube or SS amps, a tube phono preamp (I have one), etc.

C2700 argument is 'because tubes it is better', but also like the idea of something I can use all-day, every-day for a decade or more and never have to second guess if the tubes are starting to fail or the like. It also feels like this is less of a 'pure' tube preamp because so much is happening with the internal DAC (which I would use frequently).

As you can see, I am leaning towards the C53 - but would love to hear your opinions. Also to note, due to my job I am able to purchase this at dealer cost (I am not a salesman though) so this is a big benefit and why I am focusing on these.

Thank you!!!
 
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Since the amps are doing tube duty, I would go with the c53 also.
It also has the equalizers that my come in handy.
 
Thanks. And when I do add some different SS amps, I don't want to try and use a tube pre to emulate the tube sound...the tube power amps can do that.

(for the record, my perceptions and findings of what tube sound is have radically changed - the tube gear is quick, tight, and light...not really the 'warm and lush' cliche).
 
Where the perception that tubes are better comes from is a mystery to me. When I was making live remote recordings for groups to be made into cassettes or LP's. The SS Studio Ampexs always out performed the tube stuff. Even the MR-70 using nuvistors tubes. The highs were always more congested a less well defined with the tube decks. Now this was back in the 70's and I know things have progressed. But tubes still fall behind the best SS stuff. Now if you are looking for a particular type of sound yes I can agree the tubes may fill that or scratch that itch. But to say tubes are more accurate or around better etc is just some one trying to pull the wool over your eyes. The same argument was made that speakers with Alnico magnets sound better than Ceramic or rare earth magnets. We know that is wrong ,too.
 
twiiii said:
Where the perception that tubes are better comes from is a mystery to me. When I was making live remote recordings for groups to be made into cassettes or LP's. The SS Studio Ampexs always out performed the tube stuff. Even the MR-70 using nuvistors tubes. The highs were always more congested a less well defined with the tube decks. Now this was back in the 70's and I know things have progressed. But tubes still fall behind the best SS stuff. Now if you are looking for a particular type of sound yes I can agree the tubes may fill that or scratch that itch. But to say tubes are more accurate or around better etc is just some one trying to pull the wool over your eyes. The same argument was made that speakers with Alnico magnets sound better than Ceramic or rare earth magnets. We know that is wrong ,too.
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In audio, it nearly always comes down to I prefer it, therefore so should you.
 
Can anyone comment on listening to these, how close or not they sound? My perception is McIntosh is trying for a 'same, but different' option here.

Again, talking myself towards the C53, I also worry if the C53 introduced a bit more noise into the output, I could never undo that with an amp...but I could use an amp to alter the sound.
 
canonken said:
Can anyone comment on listening to these, how close or not they sound? My perception is McIntosh is trying for a 'same, but different' option here.

Again, talking myself towards the C53, I also worry if the C53 introduced a bit more noise into the output, I could never undo that with an amp...but I could use an amp to alter the sound.
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This question comes up a lot on the Mc fb groups. Almost nobody chooses the solid state option. However, sound is as subjective a topic as there is in audio. Why not see if your dealer friend can arrange an in home trial period with both and you commit to buy the one you prefer?
 
damacman said:
This question comes up a lot on the Mc fb groups. Almost nobody chooses the solid state option. However, sound is as subjective a topic as there is in audio. Why not see if your dealer friend can arrange an in home trial period with both and you commit to buy the one you prefer?
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Is there a reason they give, or just 'because tubes'?
 
Thanks all, I ordered the C53 and will have it in a few weeks (after I am back from a trip). I won't let you sway me (ha!) but if anyone here cares, or if someone finds this thread in the future, here is my rationalization:
--I needed to make a choice...and I made one (and very First World Problem choice!).
--I intend to use this with a wide range of amps (out of the gate the MC275 and a Decware UFO2), but will also look at something like a Firstwatt or Pass Labs for a SS option, and may also consider biting the bullet and 'investing' in something like a MC462 - and I saw this as more of a neutral 'core' of my system
--I will mostly use this for it's DAC...listening to streaming music, my FLAC library, movies/TV shows. This is a very digital-focused system. Said another way, in a strange sense I will almost use this as a DAC with volume control
--I liked the idea of not having tubes for this piece, and being able to have this powered on non-stop for years or decades without worry...I have plenty of other tube gear to keep me on my toes (the Decware especially is a fussy lady). I know the tubes on the C2700 would likely last a VERY long time
--I plan on buying or building a tube preamp in the future, something like a Bottlehead kit or a 'boutique' preamp that would be pure analog. Today, I can plug my Bottlehead tube photo pre into my Decware for a very pure tube experience.

Ken
 
canonken said:
Thanks all, I ordered the C53 and will have it in a few weeks (after I am back from a trip). I won't let you sway me (ha!) but if anyone here cares, or if someone finds this thread in the future, here is my rationalization:
--I needed to make a choice...and I made one (and very First World Problem choice!).
--I intend to use this with a wide range of amps (out of the gate the MC275 and a Decware UFO2), but will also look at something like a Firstwatt or Pass Labs for a SS option, and may also consider biting the bullet and 'investing' in something like a MC462 - and I saw this as more of a neutral 'core' of my system
--I will mostly use this for it's DAC...listening to streaming music, my FLAC library, movies/TV shows. This is a very digital-focused system. Said another way, in a strange sense I will almost use this as a DAC with volume control
--I liked the idea of not having tubes for this piece, and being able to have this powered on non-stop for years or decades without worry...I have plenty of other tube gear to keep me on my toes (the Decware especially is a fussy lady). I know the tubes on the C2700 would likely last a VERY long time
--I plan on buying or building a tube preamp in the future, something like a Bottlehead kit or a 'boutique' preamp that would be pure analog. Today, I can plug my Bottlehead tube photo pre into my Decware for a very pure tube experience.

Ken
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Hey Ken,
I’m eager to hear your thoughts on the c53
 
You can tell he regretted it because he never came back to update the thread! Lol. Damn… and I was really curious how this went, too.
 
noogies said:
Why not get them both?
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I think if this were a serious option you’d be better off just getting a C1000/1100 and a good DAC. Especially given the heavier depreciation on those things used than the one box preamps. Saw a couple today under 10 (C1100s) and I believe the retail is up to what, 14 or 15 now?
 
audiofun_21 said:
I think if this were a serious option you’d be better off just getting a C1000/1100 and a good DAC. Especially given the heavier depreciation on those things used than the one box preamps. Saw a couple today under 10 (C1100s) and I believe the retail is up to what, 14 or 15 now?
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Good answer, but I was just funnin'.
 
I didn't use audiokarma for ages and I saw this post come around. I have C2700 and MC275v (high) + SS (low) in stereo setup. The tube rolling is complicated but once it's figured, it's beautiful.
 
I will tell you one thing for sure about dealing with tubes. They will need to be replaced from time to time where a C-53 will still be running with out any concerns or worries over the next ten years or so. I remember one time Davie replaced my tubes in my Two year old C-22. He gave me three of the tubes to keep as back ups and three went into the trash. In less than 6 months one of the new phono stage tubes went microphonic and I was glad I had the spares. I was always replacing tubes on my 240's, the 275's it was only the minature tubes that gave me issues. We used 3500's for professional sound rentals and they had both miniature and out put tube failures. But owners of 3500's that set in one place had very few issues. I use to carry a tube catty with me when taking Ampex professional machines to remote recordings. They all had spring loaded tube covers to keep the tubes in place. They still failed more often than the machines that remained in the studios.

The point to this is tubes are going to fail and can you deal with it when it happens? Do you really want to be hampered by having just normal tone controls? After having owned a C-34 for quite a while and adding a MQ 112 the answer for me is a definite, NO! Would it be nice to have a remote, yes, but necessary? NO. At least you can use the C-53 graphic controls to approximate a loud ness control which neither pre-amp has now days. Both need a stereo reverse function to make me happy. If I had the space I would have upgraded to a C-40,
 
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I’ve been listening to my C12000 for 8-12 hrs a day, 5+ days a week for a few years now without worry.

One things for certain, if you have ever get the itch to upgrade the McIntosh tube preamps tend to have a bigger aftermarket and be an easier sell.
 
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