can a 12 inch speaker just not handle bass on the wall?

amason3 said:
That's like saying you're not supposed to take a sports car or bike above the rated speed limit b/c you'll just get a ticket or kill yourself anyway
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Actually, it's like saying you're not supposed to rev the engine in that sports car or bike to its rated horsepower on a regular basis or it'll likely blow a gasket or seal in a much shorter time than if you don't run it at sustained redline. Which is the case for any engine not built specifically for a few days of full output operation in the weeks leading up to the Indy 500. There have also been many sports cars built whose stock transmissions and drive gears could not handle sustained full horsepower output from the engine and had to be specially modded if the car was going to be raced.
 
I havnt done anything to them. They were just like this when I got them except the pots on the front have been deoxed. Guys this is not that loud. Remember I am in a small room and its a 30 watt amp and I showed the vol level in the vid. I am thinking the woofers are shot. I was just curious as to whether they were like this from the factory or if the xover could have a prob. I have a 130/channel amp I may hook them up to later.
 
If it's distorting this bad at lower volumes then somethings not quite right. Have you done a visual check of the woofers. It sounds like the woofer is bottoming out which shouldn't happen at lower volumes. Maybe there's a physical tear?

elalbino63 said:
I havnt done anything to them. They were just like this when I got them except the pots on the front have been deoxed. Guys this is not that loud. Remember I am in a small room and its a 30 watt amp and I showed the vol level in the vid. I am thinking the woofers are shot. I was just curious as to whether they were like this from the factory or if the xover could have a prob. I have a 130/channel amp I may hook them up to later.
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Ok I hooked up the larger Marantz amp and it sounds a lot better. The woofers are definately the weak link here though. Still not sure I understand why it would bottom out with the weaker amp.

Did Pioneer have anything with larger wattage around this time? The SX 400, 500, and 600 series didnt come out until around 1971 or 1972. The amp and speakers in question which I assumed would be a good match were made around 1969. Pretty much the same year. Did Pioneer just suck for a few years? (Or to Pioneer haters suck more) What was going on around then? Was everone just content with nancy sinatra and her boots at a low level. Did everything tech wise just explode in the mid 70's?

Now not sure what to do with this neat little amp. Its almost perfect inside and out. I bought it from a kid for 35 dollars whose dad got it at a PX during Vietnam. It doesnt seem to be a good match for these speakers. Sure looks good though. Oh well.
 
- SX-6000 was 1971-73, SX-1010 was around the same time and way more powerful.

- SX-6000 is a perfectly fine little unit and you can do a lot of with 30W or whatever it is, as long as you've got efficient speakers. You can't get tons of super low bass, but I think based on the farther info you've provided by now, you are just looking for decent bass in a reasonable range, not pounding sub-bass.

- It sounds like it's quite likely the woofers are damaged. Let's see the front of them up close. On the other hand, if by "a lot better" on the Marantz, you mean that it does not make the horrible distortion sound, then your receiver was clipping the whole time and that's bad news.
 
Do you mind if I ask where you got the years. When I first got the receiver I looked all over the web. Several times actually to find the year it was made. The best I could come up with was 1969 ish.

There is a website devoted to the silverfaced pioneer receivers but this is not there but the earliest on the ones listed were the sx 400 and 500 series at 1971 or 1972. I am curious. I found the Pioneer speaker chronology someone has up on AK It lists the A700's first in 1970. Ill look up the 1010 thats interesting. Did they make these at the same time as the sx400 500 etc models. I always assumed that mine was the earlier version of those.

http://www.silverpioneer.netfirms.com/

if you have never seen it check it out. I bet it belongs to an Audiokarma member. The speakers just sound better with the larger amp. It will still make the noise but at a very high volume and lots of bass. I had CS-99A speakers for a while and am rebuilding a set right now. They didnt do this. They were tight and clear at higher volume and bass. I really like that model. These just kinda came along and I got them because of their condition. Its prob just the speaker design in the A700. Wonder if they use the same 12 inch woofer as the cs-88A?. If not that might be a good swap.

The sx6000 would be OK to listen to music that doesnt get too bassy. I'd like to try it on some better speakers. Ill bet it would sound ok. Maybe a weak amp needs better speakers and weak speakers need a stronger amp? It just doesnt seem to be matched right. Like I said the woofers still arn't that wonderful with the larger amp. They just kinda get by.

What about using the pioneer sx-6000 as a pre amp or tuner. The tuner sounds really good. Say hooked to a marantz 250 amp or one of the pioneer spec amps?
 
elalbino63 said:
Do you mind if I ask where you got the years. When I first got the receiver I looked all over the web. Several times actually to find the year it was made. The best I could come up with was 1969 ish.
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Sure, I got it from these two places:
http://vintageelectronics.betamaxcollectors.com/pioneerstereoreceivermodelsx-6000.html
http://akdatabase.org/Pioneer/Receivers.htm
That is not exactly proof, but the cosmetics are right in line with the other early 70s Pioneer offerings. I think everything pre-1970 looked more like their 60s tube stuff. See SX-1000T_ models.
 
dumptruck said:
Sure, I got it from these two places:
http://vintageelectronics.betamaxcollectors.com/pioneerstereoreceivermodelsx-6000.html
http://akdatabase.org/Pioneer/Receivers.htm
That is not exactly proof, but the cosmetics are right in line with the other early 70s Pioneer offerings. I think everything pre-1970 looked more like their 60s tube stuff. See SX-1000T_ models.
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those are very cool. I have never seen them before. Def goning to save those two sites. Especially the ak list. I am curious to see the transitional models around 70 or so. I may be the only one not to see that but if there are others interested here is the AK speakerlist

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94140.
 
Bottom line is with very rare exceptions Japanese speakers of that era just aren't built to put out much low bass and I am pretty sure you have bottomed out those Pioneer woofers and they are toast. If you want to listen to loud bassy rock and roll get some Radio Shack Mach Ones, Cerwin Vegas, or large JBL bookshelf speakers. The JBLs will sound better on the top end but are more coin., hook them up to your higher watt Marantz wire in a sub like Yamaha powered sub from a pawn shop and call it a day.
 
barredowl said:
Bottom line is with very rare exceptions Japanese speakers of that era just aren't built to put out much low bass and I am pretty sure you have bottomed out those Pioneer woofers and they are toast. If you want to listen to loud bassy rock and roll get some Radio Shack Mach Ones, Cerwin Vegas, or large JBL bookshelf speakers. The JBLs will sound better on the top end but are more coin., hook them up to your higher watt Marantz wire in a sub like Yamaha powered sub from a pawn shop and call it a day.
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Once again Ill say. They were like that when I got them. And they sound OK with the larger amp. I am listening to them right now. They sound ok but the woofers kinda suck. I am afraid thats the way they were made. Want another video?:D

I think you are right about the JBL's I have had several people tell me I would like the what is it L100's. The CS-99A has a really nice sound at least I think.
 
I know what your problem is after seeing your videos.

It is like you are being told, and it's exactly like I told you.

First off, you are trying to push a speaker too hard that is not meant for the volume levels you want, and not meant to push the bass freqs you want.

You have the volume turned up to about the 11:00 position, and the bass control turned all the way up.

Those speakers ARE NOT MEANT to handle that.

I can only say it one more time, and I can't get any clearer about it...

YOU WANT BIG SOUND, YOU NEED BIG SPEAKERS AND PLENTY OF POWER...

You have none of both...

For what you want, you need to go take a look at this thread.. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=345932 All big, all effecient, and all capable of the sound you're looking for.
 
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similost said:
You have the volume turned up to about the 11:00 position, and the bass control turned all the way up.

Those speakers ARE NOT MEANT to handle that.
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Quoted for truth, and I'll add that you can't generally dime the bass knob on a 30W receiver into any speakers without going into clipping except at very low volumes. If your receiver and speakers were actually producing the bass you are asking for with the controls like that, it would sound like a terrible booming mess anyway. I didn't notice the controls at the beginning when I watched it.
 
If you peg the bass controls with the 250 hooked up and the volume at 1100, you will destroy your speaks, and soon. Goes for most any gear. You need a subwoofer with tastes like that, my friend.

My speaks will vibrate the room (any good, large speaks should) on a couple of Pink Floyd songs (try the intro to Welcome to the Machine), pushing less than 1/2 a watt, with the tone controls flat. Can't imagine pegging the bass and volume controls -- the red lights would be on in a heartbeat...
 
Continuous clipping like that *will* fry your tweeters sooner or later it's only a matter of time.
 
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