Cartridge & headshell too heavy!!

chaiguy

chaiguy

Audiophile Wannabe
I just got a new Technics Mk5 and fitted it with an Audio Technica 150-mlx on an ortofon LH2000 headshell.

The problem is that, even with the supplemental weight added to the back of the tonearm, I still can't balance it at 0, so I can't calibrate it properly.

Does anyone know of any heavier supplemental weights available for cases like this?? Right now if I put the counterweight just so it catches, it seems to be at roughly a proper VTF, and sounds good, but I'd like to balance it properly.

If I can't get a heavier weight, I'll have to invest in a VTF gauge to set it properly or at least make sure it's not way too heavy.
 
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A tracking force scale isn't a bad idea anyway. I don't know about your turntable, but from what I have heard and experienced, the VTF scale markings on tonearm counterweights are frequently off. Besides, you can get an accurate, digital scale, though not made specifically for the purpose, for cheap online.
 
I would add a piece of rubber (washers?) or Blu Tack or something that will attach easily to the end stub... DONE!!
 
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Why are you using this headshell? Fancy, heavy headshells are IMO a waste of money. They don't add anything to the sound quality--in fact, they detract from it. This cartridge is heavy to begin with. You are using it on a medium mass tonearm, and then using a headshell that is 4g heavier than the original Technics headshell. Meanwhile the cartridge is very high in compliance, meaning the cantilever spring is very soft. This is perhaps the worst match of cartridge to arm mass. On an s-tonearm you should use the lightest headshell you can, especially if you are going to use a cartridge like this. My suggestion is to use the Technics headshell, and return the Ortofon if you can.
 
hakaplan said:
Why are you using this headshell? Fancy, heavy headshells are IMO a waste of money. They don't add anything to the sound quality--in fact, they detract from it. This cartridge is heavy to begin with. You are using it on a medium mass tonearm, and then using a headshell that is 4g heavier than the original Technics headshell. Meanwhile the cartridge is very high in compliance, meaning the cantilever spring is very soft. This is perhaps the worst match of cartridge to arm mass. On an s-tonearm you should use the lightest headshell you can, especially if you are going to use a cartridge like this. My suggestion is to use the Technics headshell, and return the Ortofon if you can.
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Absolutely correct. You need to use the stock Technics headshell. The only time I use a heavier headshell on my Technics is when I'm playing 78s and using a Stanton cartridge tracking at 5 grams.
 
hakaplan said:
Why are you using this headshell? Fancy, heavy headshells are IMO a waste of money. They don't add anything to the sound quality--in fact, they detract from it. This cartridge is heavy to begin with. You are using it on a medium mass tonearm, and then using a headshell that is 4g heavier than the original Technics headshell. Meanwhile the cartridge is very high in compliance, meaning the cantilever spring is very soft. This is perhaps the worst match of cartridge to arm mass. On an s-tonearm you should use the lightest headshell you can, especially if you are going to use a cartridge like this. My suggestion is to use the Technics headshell, and return the Ortofon if you can.
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Really... I did some calculations for the resonant frequency and they seemed to be spot on with the cartridge and headshell mass; of course this was just based on a couple formulas I found and not actually tested, but they came out at roughly 10 Hz... isn't this ideal?
 
I have my 150MLX in the lightest headshell I had on hand, an ADC I bought used on eBay, for use on my SL-1700Mk2. I tried using it on a Technics headshell (not the newer slotted version, but the older one with the insert that slides back and forth) and wasn't happy with the performance. As heavy as that cartridge is, and as light as it tracks, you really ought to do what you can to reduce the mass at the end of the tonearm.
 
SA-708 said:
I have my 150MLX in the lightest headshell I had on hand, an ADC I bought used on eBay, for use on my SL-1700Mk2. I tried using it on a Technics headshell (not the newer slotted version, but the older one with the insert that slides back and forth) and wasn't happy with the performance. As heavy as that cartridge is, and as light as it tracks, you really ought to do what you can to reduce the mass at the end of the tonearm.
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Interesting. I hadn't realized this would be a problem. Perhaps I will sell the LH-2000 on eBay and stick with the stock headshell. At any rate I will try mounting it on the stock and compare it.
 
That's Ortofon is a beautiful headshell. But way too heavy. I remember looking at it on Bill Thackers site IIRC, and thought it was a typo.
 
I'm with the others who have suggested using the stock Technics headshell - it's actually my headshell of choice. It's consistently well made, light, magnesium construction - it's hard to beat really.

You don't need the extra weight for the AT-150MLx, the lighter stock headshell will work great and the AT is a good match for the 1200 - an excellent sounding combination.

If you are just dying to try it out in the heavier headshell, you can use the auxiliary weight that came with your table. It's a small chrome knob with a threaded post on it that screws into the back of the tonearm and may provide enough additional counterweight to allow the heavier headshell.

auxwt.jpg
 
slate1 said:
If you are just dying to try it out in the heavier headshell, you can use the auxiliary weight that came with your table. It's a small chrome knob with a threaded post on it that screws into the back of the tonearm and may provide enough additional counterweight to allow the heavier headshell.
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Sadly, the headshell is still too heavy even with the auxiliary weight. But since everyone here is telling me to use the stock headshell I think I will take your advice and use that. I'll probably put the LH-2000 up on eBay for sale, unless you can think of any reason I might want to keep it for a future system?
 
chaiguy said:
Really... I did some calculations for the resonant frequency and they seemed to be spot on with the cartridge and headshell mass; of course this was just based on a couple formulas I found and not actually tested, but they came out at roughly 10 Hz... isn't this ideal?
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The compliance AT lists as 10CU is a worthless and irrelevant number. That is the dynamic compliance. The closer number would be the static compliance, but even then, both are measured at 100Hz, where we need them at 10Hz. Compliance specs are generally unreliable and inconsistent across manufacturers. The only logical and reliable measure of compliance is median tracking force, since the stiffer the cantilever, the higher the TF must be and vice versa. Therefore, looking at the median TF for the AT-150MLX we see it's 1.25g, which is very light. The proper conclusion is that it's a high compliance cartridge which mates better with a low mass arm.

I generally use 6g as the average cartridge weight. At 8.3g it makes it that much more of a challenge to keep that overall arm mass low. With the Technics headshell I'd expect a resonant frequency of 6Hz if you're lucky. With the Ortofon you're well below that. If you doubt it, try to find a used copy of the Shure Era IV or V test record and perform the resonance test.
 
Well after setting everything up on the stock headshell, I compared it to a recording of the same song I made with the LH-2000, and the LH-2000 sounds better. The recording with the stock headshell sounded flatter, while the LH-2000 sounded much more open and wider. It gave me goosebumps listening to the chorus of Africa by Toto. :)

Now I'm not saying there is a huge difference, and it could just be that I was using a different tracking force/anti-skate than I am now, but the LH-2000 does sound better to me.

So after all that work I'll probably switch it back, set it up properly on the LH-2000 and compare it again. I might have to get a tracking force gauge.
 
So I switched it back to the LH-2000, and sure enough it does sound better again. Now this is to my ears of course, and I'm not trying to be all "I'm right and you're wrong". In fact, this comes as a surprise to me, as I wasn't expecting a headshell to affect the sound audibly, and admittedly I wanted the LH-2000 because it looks sweet, not because of its sonic qualities.

But after switching to the stock headshell, and comparing recordings I made, it just sounded slightly duller, like the instruments didn't have as much free reign on the overall sound.

I have the recordings available if anyone is actually curious. I'd be interested in finding out if anyone else hears the difference that I do, or perhaps finds the stock headshell recording better to their ears. After all, music (especially analog music) is really more of a subjective thing than objective, and to each his or her own.

Cheers,
Logan

P.S.
I ordered a cheap digital scale off eBay to test out my actual tracking force since the tonearm gauge is pretty useless when I can't balance it at zero. :)
 
Hey, why not go all out and get the LH-8000!! I think a dealer here in Toronto has it in stock..:drool:
 

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Lol. Spending $80 on a headshell was enough to convince myself of! :D

The LH-8000 is a bit lighter tho isn't it? Hmm... ;)

I like the 2000 tho, really fits my style. And we all know vinyl is all about style. j/k :)
 
Whoa - going at this all backwards. The AT150MLX is an extremely compliant cartridge which wants as little mass as possible. It needs very little to "work against". The ceramic/metallic matrix cartridge body makes this a heavy cartridge to start with. Get thee an aftermarket stamped aluminum headshell with lightening holes off the 'Bay or somewhere. That will be around 7 grams. Get SOAR wires from LPGear as they are very light, and strong with good sockets. Lash it all up and re-balance.

The goal is to lower the inertial forces that the tiny cantilever needs to push around. You would like to get the counterweight in as close as possible, not out as far and with additional weight.

Heavy headshell combos and counterweight out all the way are a set-up for a MC cartridge with a stiff suspension. Opposite of the 150.
 
chaiguy said:
Lol. Spending $80 on a headshell was enough to convince myself of! :D

The LH-8000 is a bit lighter tho isn't it? Hmm... ;)

I like the 2000 tho, really fits my style. And we all know vinyl is all about style. j/k :)
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Heh-heh..yes, almost 4 grams lighter. Seriously though, Broc & Hakaplan are correct and as I mentioned in my first post, that 2000 is just one HEAVY headshell. Lighter is better for your needs, a nice lightweight aluminum or possibly magnesium to keep the weight down.
 
Can someone explain the logic behind it, and/or the downside to having a heavier headshell is, assuming the tracking force is still correct?
 
The downside is; when playing, the stylus will continously track grooves that will accelerate it at low frequencies. Either vertical or lateral or both. This will more or less always happen. If the tonearm´s effective mass is too high, as in this case, the stylus suspension cannot accelerate the tonearm. Instead there will be a variation in VTF that will be high.

This variation in VTF will cause much higher distortion compared to a tonearm with correct eff. mass.
gusten

Edit: A variation in the range of +-1,0g is not unlikely with an undamped heavy tonearm.
 
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