I'll grant you that. Each has its strong and weak points.
Just not the oft heard BS that CDs always have more dynamic range than you can hear!
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CD a lot brighter than vinyl
- Thread starter TheMarco
- Start date
Just not the oft heard BS that CDs always have more dynamic range than you can hear!
benricci
Super Member
The most important factor in how good an album sounds is how well it was recorded, mixed and mastered. Formats are simply containers for the music.
There's a reason "Aja" sounds great no matter how you play it -- cassette, vinyl, CD, streaming, mp3, whatever.
Great recordings will sound great regardless of format.
One of the main problems withs CDs is the crap mastering that ran rampant for years. Listen to some good needldrops on YouTube for heaven's sake -- some are breathtaking even in compressed digital audio streaming from YouTube's servers across hundreds to miles to your PC.
So it's not digital that's the issue, it's the specific masters prepared for CD re-issues that have often been lousy, loud and abrasive.
There's a reason "Aja" sounds great no matter how you play it -- cassette, vinyl, CD, streaming, mp3, whatever.
Great recordings will sound great regardless of format.
One of the main problems withs CDs is the crap mastering that ran rampant for years. Listen to some good needldrops on YouTube for heaven's sake -- some are breathtaking even in compressed digital audio streaming from YouTube's servers across hundreds to miles to your PC.
So it's not digital that's the issue, it's the specific masters prepared for CD re-issues that have often been lousy, loud and abrasive.
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What type of music are you listening to? Remember that a lot goes on before the music gets to your record or your CD. Generally, classical music has less processing, and smaller groups or single instruments are easier to reproduce than a large orchestra. My experience is that a recording of a piano on a record can sound very similar to the same recording on a CD, as long as the volumes are the same, except for the surface noise and reduced dynamic range of records compared to CDs.
Sure. Here's the explosive dynamics from the 96/24 soundtrack to Rogue One. This is the opening track called "He's Here for Us". I used it four years ago in a contribution to Glenn's speaker video post:
And now for the CD version. Notice any difference?
Because turning down the treble takes the treble out of your music at some hinge frequency ...
Changing the cable can remove the harshness and distortion but leave the cymbals in the music ..
these Sony decks sound great if the HK doesn't do the trick.
originally $1000 these can now be had for around $100.
Regarding vinyl vs. cd compression, it would be interesting to compare the sound quality of an original release track in three different formats. 33LP, CD, 45LP. I have heard before vinyl has lower dynamic range and bitrate compared to a CD. At the same time, some of the very best music I've ever heard has come from 45LP maxi singles. If you take up an entire side of a 33 record to play one track, it has the potential to sound truly amazing.
benricci
Super Member
Vinyl does not have a bitrate. There are no bits, so I’m not sure what you’re referencing here.
Some newer records and vinyl reissues are pressed from digital masters, but I’m not sure if that’s what you’re on about?
He is referring to "equivalent" bitrate...the sample rate and bit depth required to fully capture a vinyl recording.
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=35530.0
That's what he's "on about".
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=35530.0
That's what he's "on about".
Vinyl is only 12-bit depth / approx. 22 kHz. typical CD is double, 44.1 kHz or 1411kbps bit rate. Would that put vinyl at approx. 700kbps then?
Bit depth and specs don't tell the whole story. I still prefer listening to my Thorens, but would kill to hear some good RTR. Perhaps my favorite DAC was the original Philips TDA1540. Only 14-bits, but absolutely amazing sounding digital technology from 1984. The answer is something like a 1987 DBX DX5 CD Player. It has adjustments for ambience, DAIR (digital audio impact recovery) and even compression. Since that technological peak of CD player adjustability in the mid/late eighties, we've been stuck listening to one-trick ponies with better "specs". You either have to generally like the sound as-is, or find another player. It never had to be this way. After all, we've at least had a treble adjusmtent on our amps and receiver for how many decades now? CD players could've been a lot more than they were/are with regards to adjusting their sound parameters without killing or dulling their sound, but decided not to for some reason.
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lightcapture
Super Member
Not necessarily. I have bright CDs and albums. It depends how and when they were mixed according to trend and equipment used at the time of mix.
I remember the top loading Magnavox (Philips) CD player from the early eighties sounded considerable better than other units for quite some time. I used to service CD players before they became a throw away item. FD-1000 was the model and it had very good sound, was extremely well built, had an actual cast chassis around which adjustments were made. I'd like to have one now for comparison against other CD players, at the time CDs were being compared to vinyl in a market native to vinyl and was supposed to be the answer to everything audio, direct comparison was inescapable at the time. Magnavox... Philips... was concerned about it.
My Belgian-made 1985 Magnavox FD1051 was a thrift store find. Its got the dual 14-bit TDA1540 dacs. After a recap and installing modern opamps and sockets (for rolling/ tweaking the sound) it's easily better than most all other new, consumer grade cdps I've heard. It will never have the extreme detail of a modern player, but then again, who cares; and why has that always been prioritized and chosen for us as the most important thing when it comes to digital technology? I guess because we can increase resolution and detail with digital's technological superiority, therefore we must. Sometimes it's not just about hearing the details in a recording, but also how effectively the music is able move you in an emotional way. I enjoy both.
This little player more than makes up for any shortcomings with its realistic, raw and exciting sound that you can listen to for hours on end. It's the opposite of bright, digital harshness. Since, I prefer the sound of vinyl over CDs, I've always been interested in getting digital to sound more analog. I used to think digital was always going to sound worse than analog- edgier and brighter, and that there was nothing I could do about it but stay stuck in the past, listening to records to enjoy hearing music. CDs could never rival the truth found in a good analog recording. I no longer feel this way. Digital can sound just as amazing as a smooth analog waveform using jagged ones and zeroes. It's entirely possible to have a similar sound signature and listening experience going from an album release to the CD release of the same record even though it's mastered differently, provided you have the right equipment and the ability to adjust sound parameters- whether through digital adjustments and filters, different opamps or even cables.
This little player more than makes up for any shortcomings with its realistic, raw and exciting sound that you can listen to for hours on end. It's the opposite of bright, digital harshness. Since, I prefer the sound of vinyl over CDs, I've always been interested in getting digital to sound more analog. I used to think digital was always going to sound worse than analog- edgier and brighter, and that there was nothing I could do about it but stay stuck in the past, listening to records to enjoy hearing music. CDs could never rival the truth found in a good analog recording. I no longer feel this way. Digital can sound just as amazing as a smooth analog waveform using jagged ones and zeroes. It's entirely possible to have a similar sound signature and listening experience going from an album release to the CD release of the same record even though it's mastered differently, provided you have the right equipment and the ability to adjust sound parameters- whether through digital adjustments and filters, different opamps or even cables.
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z-adamson
Addicted Member
My observation...
If the speakers are voiced to a digital source, utilizing an analog source without making other changes, will give muffled and dull sound every time.
If the speakers are voiced to an analog source, utilizing a digital source without making other changes, will give an overly bright sound and an increase in SPL for a given volume position.
If the speakers are voiced to a digital source, utilizing an analog source without making other changes, will give muffled and dull sound every time.
If the speakers are voiced to an analog source, utilizing a digital source without making other changes, will give an overly bright sound and an increase in SPL for a given volume position.
Bill Ferris
Lunatic Member
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vwestlife
Super Member
Unless you're feeding square waves into the drivers, speakers are always voicing an analog source.