Cheap plinths on tables with potential

imready

it's good to be the king!
I'm sure I'm not the only one who looks at tables that have a lot of cash spent on the mechanics of it only to cheap out on the plinth to meet a price point for marketing. I look at the three better Dual's (1019,1229 & 701) that I own and can't help but wonder just how good they might sound with a real plinth under them. I have others in need too, surely my Thorens TD-125 mkII would perform better or that Rek-o-kut deluxe in the giant open box with old dried up foam trying to act as a suspension will benefit from a modified plinth. The plastic bottoms and cheesy 3/8" MDF has got to go and when the weather warms up it will be time to address some of these tables to make them all that they can be. I'd like to here stories of plinth modification and building for tables like these that did some many things right only to faulter at the finish line. I have some hard rock maple set aside just for the task, it is probably 30-40 years old and a real booger to work with. For the innards I will probably use some baltic birch plywood or MDF, maybe even layered on the rim drives. I get excited thinking about this kind of stuff, can't wait to get started.:thmbsp:
 
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I agree, I just can't leave the plinths alone, although after building a few I can see where a good plinth could make the cost astronomical.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=149222

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227268

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=366947

All of these were pretty labor intensive, and couldn't be built at the factory without adding way too much cost to the tables.

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Here is the current project, it is kind of laid off to the side while I build a mass constrained plinth for a Dennon for local member JStride.
 

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Neither of my tables have a good plinth. The Thorens 160 is a fairly flimsy wood box with that thin bottom. The Garrard Zero 100 is in a plastic box that weighs almost nothing. I have zero woodworking capacity, so its not likely that will change unless I hire someone to build me a new plinth.
 
I replaced the plastic tub plinth on my Dual 704 (mainly for looks) with an old United Audio wood plinth, with open bottom. I was very surprised by how much the sound quality improved. Makes me wonder how it would sound with a massive, damped, rigid plinth.
 
I have always thought it is a real pity that the Technics 1200 II was designed with such a flimsy plinth. It could have been so much better as the driving system is so exceptionally good. All IMHO.
gusten
 
Watch out for those old United Audio bases to start crumbling on you. They were made of MDF and over time moisture in the air is making them fall apart.

No connection, but there is a very popular Dual repair person who is on this site who makes solid wood replacements for Dual turntables. I bought one for my 701 and it really improved the sound. High quality work, too.
 
Both my TD150 and TD160 have newer plinths, but the TD126 and TD125 do not. The TD125 will have a new plinth, but the TD126 is so pristine, that that will will remain stock.
Regards,
Jim
 
I have always thought it is a real pity that the Technics 1200 II was designed with such a flimsy plinth. It could have been so much better as the driving system is so exceptionally good. All IMHO.
gusten

You've got to be kidding?!!

Do you actually own a Technics SL1200?

The plinth is substantial, obviously well engineered and a far cry from "flimsy."
 
You've got to be kidding?!!

Do you actually own a Technics SL1200?

The plinth is substantial, obviously well engineered and a far cry from "flimsy."

Yes I own one, it has been quite a bit of work, but it´s not flimsy now. There are still a few things to be done with it, but it´s now substantially more rigid.
gusten
 
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heard a 701 with a solid plinth, totally different animal. I'll see if I can find the pics...
 
The thinking in the OP is absolutely right. Any of the old idler-drive TTs will benefit from being sunk into a large/massive vibration-sinking plinth. Most of what was developed over several years for Lencos on "Da Thread" at the late, lamented Lenco Lovers' site --much of which survives now on the Lenco Heaven site-- applies to other brands, too, such as Duals. Reading up on the threads there will give you a good background and appreciation for what might be done, and how.

You'll want to consider slate, soapstone, and laminated ("constrained layer damping") of materials like baltic-birch plywood, as good material to use for the plinth. Make it bond tightly to your top plate (the metal top surface of the player) so that vibrations pass through that bond. Leave as little open space as you can around the mechanisms, except for the motor area, where some airflow is needed for heat dissipation. Also work over the machine to damp and eliminate vibration wherever possible, starting with the obvious candidates like the motor and motor mounts, and then looking at the idler wheel mounting and control system, as well. Check lubrication where appropriate, as well as slack/loose things that might vibrate, and resonant metal connections that might be damped. Get a contact stethoscope and start listening to noises, tracking them down and minimizing them.

You may be surprised at just how much improvement can be wrung out of a typical idler-drive TT, with such an approach. While the Lencos, with their heavy platters and exceptionally simple and precise mechanisms are particularly well-suited to this approach, others such as the Duals can benefit as well. For absolute best sonic performance, simplify the drive as much as you can, removing what you can of the changer-mechanism parts and converting the player to a simple manual unit...however, this isn't necessary for good sound, only if you want to squeeze out that last percent or two of potential performance. Personally, I like to leave them as changers, but still transport them to heavy plinths, for the sonic benefits.

One nice approach right in between using the original resonant "empty box" plinths and the massive Lenco-type solid plinths is to take an original plinth, and "fill it in" to make it solid. Cut boards that fit exactly into the box, with the right cut-outs for the motor and gear mechanisms, and glue them in solidly, but leaving the original plinth as the outer "veneer". The TT will LOOK original, but SOUND much better than the original. This is my favorite approach whenever I find an original plinth that still looks very good cosmetically, and seems too good to waste.



I have always thought it is a real pity that the Technics 1200 II was designed with such a flimsy plinth. It could have been so much better as the driving system is so exceptionally good. All IMHO.
gusten[/QUOTES]


Should I add your name to the list of AKers who own GT-2000s? Obviously you must be used to some such monstrous plinth, if you call the Technics one "such a flimsy plinth"... :D
 
Yes I own one, it has been quite a bit of work, but it´s not flimsy now. There are still a few things to be done with it, but it´s now substantially more rigid.
gusten

What do you consider a sturdy, rigid plinth?
 
If anything the 1200 plinth has been accused of being overdampened and the last thing it could ever be accused of is being flimsy/light weight.
 
If anything the 1200 plinth has been accused of being overdampened and the last thing it could ever be accused of is being flimsy/light weight.

Obviously I don´t agree. I know of this 'overdampened' talk as an attempt to explain how it sounds. This is not how it works, how can a plinth be overdampened?
At least it should be critically dampened, but this is very difficult to achieve.

The effort to improve the sound of the 1200 has lead me to the conclusion that the combination of platter/bearing/plinth must be critically penetrated. As a result these parts has been made more rigid and also more dampened.

I can say that the distortion has dropped significantly(measured), which really pays off regarding the sound. Also the frequency response is more even.
gusten
 
I'm pretty fond of my Dual 502, but it's plastic plinth sucks. I haven't decided whether or not it's worth building a wooden plinth for.

Chris

Edit: 502, not 506.
 
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The effort to improve the sound of the 1200 has lead me to the conclusion that the combination of platter/bearing/plinth must be critically penetrated. As a result these parts has been made more rigid and also more dampened.

I can say that the distortion has dropped significantly(measured), which really pays off regarding the sound. Also the frequency response is more even.
gusten

You made it "better" then. (Not something I personally think needed improving but thats negligible) It dosen't make the standard plinth "flimsy" and using such exaggerated terms is only going to annoy people.
 
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