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Cheap speakers with expensive amp or the other way around?
- Thread starter rochester21
- Start date
E2
Addicted Member
I was joking, and being serious at the same time. Finding amazing stuff used in the usual places was what I was implying. I posted a pic of one of those finds which somebody took umbrage with.
It's very hard to do this, especially now, but asking on the internet and getting out there and looking are two different things. If I was on a budget I would be out there looking....(That was my assumption with this thread)
E2
Addicted Member
Yes. They actually have done it many times. The point is to make somebody think about this the other way since they are obviously budget conscious. Or implying it.
E2
Addicted Member
If you are handy you can get on Seas website and with their drivers ($$$+$) of course build your own speakers. They have the schematics available.
Seas, and Dynaudio are well known speaker, driver manufactures. Both are in those Totems I have which are Isobaric like the 606's which also sport Seas tweeters.
An Isobaric design the size of the 606's would be an amazing speaker. I have read about them often. Highly coveted speaker. My only question is what I can get out of the Mani 2's, or any quality modern standmount I am paying for something I wouldn't need with the 606's. But that's up to the buyer to decide.......
If you haven't already, you really, really need to provide more information about what you are looking for (e.g. 1. your budget for speakers and amp, 2. what music sources you will use, 3. what genres of music, 4. volume levels, 5. room size, etc.)
It's a dance, you have to like the combination, but the amp has to be up to the task. Speakers will make the biggest difference, only if the amplifier let's them. Even then, speaker placement has to be considered if you want it to work. When it does, amazing things happen.Both are equally important.
My amp is much better than my speakers. I mean, I do LIKE my 2 pairs of speakers ... but the amp is much better.
So get new speakers? I should but that won't be happening any time soon. Maybe a recap someday but they sound 'really great', for me, right now! Ain't touching nothing, that would just be plain stupid!! Fixing something that's not broken? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I'm quite happy and content with the way it sounds now.
But... to answer the question: 'BOTH' are 'equally' important. I've read that most folks would say 'speakers are the most important', and I totally do understand that. But ... Great speakers and a good amp would SOUND wonderful!! Speakers are the 'sound' that you hear. But... great amps put out quality sound. BOTH!
You know, "Your stereo system is only as good as its 'weakest' link". That goes for anything really.
That's the way I hear it.
Hope this helps in some kind of way.
Now: 'AlNiCo' magnets or ferrite magnets in the speakers! More decisions.
A year or two ago I upgraded my amplifier. The difference was astounding. But, I have very good speakers, so that base is covered. Then again, outside of the sound, I'm listening for space. I've got that again.
Op is just phishing to be spoon fed info, and I do not think they know that it will be subjective at best.
I also noticed (this thread or another) that they mentioned being born in 1989, they may not know the info they need to be providing nor the questions they need to be asking.
OP needs to answer your basic questions, which others have asked, if they are truly serious about getting "help".
RVT1K
Super Member
I'll add my two pennies...
I think that the start and the end of the chain -source,amp,speakers- have the biggest impact on what you will hear much more than the middle.
Speakers are what convert the electrical signal to an acoustic output and will have more of an impact than anything else in the chain.
I think that the start and the end of the chain -source,amp,speakers- have the biggest impact on what you will hear much more than the middle.
Speakers are what convert the electrical signal to an acoustic output and will have more of an impact than anything else in the chain.
I think this very concise answer gets it right.
bluesky
Lunatic Member
That's it!
"Speakers make the biggest difference but the amp has to be up to the task."
rochester21
Active Member
I already have the bare minimum of what I need, starting with the Dali Zensor 5 speakers.
I listen to Ace of Base on CDs burned at home on vintage cd players(Philips 604, Denon 1520) or tapes recorded from said cd players on my Denon DR-M24HX.
I am planning on getting an active sub, since my old Onkyo receiver has a sub pre-out and the Dali's don't really deliver the punch that Ace of Base puts out.
We have small-averaged sized rooms here in Europe.
rochester21
Active Member
This is not a "Help me" type of thread, this is a "let's talk about gear because that's what these forums are for".
Let's assume for a second that I was asking opinions on what amp I should get, how exactly would anyone guess which amp might suit me? For me this whole hobby is about trial and error, I bought my first receiver used and only because I liked the way it looked, I tend to believe many people start out like this. Fortunately, I chose a decent unit and as long as it works I probably won't try to upgrade.
If anyone would come and tell me "Hey, that Nad sounds better than your Onkyo" I'd say "Yeah, but the Nad is butt ugly", and that's the problem with giving advice, different people different tastes.
One can always look for reviews and opinions on these forums before starting a new thread, because there's already a lot of info out there, and I did and do a lot of reading trying to educate myself.
But like i said, this particular thread is just chatter, especially since I'm away from my system and can't listen to music the "proper way"- a bit of sarcasm here, I use my phone as many others but it's not my first choice.
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A good amp will make cheap speakers sound better than they have a right to. Good speakers can take the signal from a mediocre amp and turn it into something reasonably listenable. Crappy speakers will sound crappy, regardless of amplification. And a crappy amp will not let any decent speaker perform anywhere near its potential.
Right now I have a Soundcraftsmen 125wpc amp driving a pair of Pioneer/Andrew Jones FS51 floor-standers. These are inexpensive speakers, not cheap. Nor do they sound cheap. I've even driven them with my 130wpc Odyssey Khartago Extreme. Either amp is overkill for a $260 pair of speakers. But, they sound much bigger than $260 speakers when presented with a good quality signal.
There are millions of combinations of components and speakers to build a system with. Most will sound quite decent. That's really all that matters.
Right now I have a Soundcraftsmen 125wpc amp driving a pair of Pioneer/Andrew Jones FS51 floor-standers. These are inexpensive speakers, not cheap. Nor do they sound cheap. I've even driven them with my 130wpc Odyssey Khartago Extreme. Either amp is overkill for a $260 pair of speakers. But, they sound much bigger than $260 speakers when presented with a good quality signal.
There are millions of combinations of components and speakers to build a system with. Most will sound quite decent. That's really all that matters.
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This is an interesting thread which I think is good to keep alive because for many AK members it is about how to approach the hobby. For me it's more about the speakers and what they can or cannot produce in terms of sound quality and quantity.
I've had more speakers than components and electronics over the years and I feel that the changes in speakers have had more effect than the electronics have. I have had many speakers starting with manufacturers like Soundesign, then moving to Mirage, Bose, JBL, Paradigm, Klipsch, KEF, Dahlquist, and many others.
What I have found is that given the other factors and components remain the same (amplifier, CD player, DAC, turntable, speaker wire, interconnects, listening room, etc.) the speakers you connect to the system will provide the greatest impact and change to sound quality/quantity.
Now I am not saying that changes to the components will not have an effect, a cheap amplifer with cheap design and parts will not likely be able to drive a nice pair of speakers to their best capabilities or may even damage the speakers if the power provided is overly distorted. However, if you try to play a song or even a test tone of say 20hz through a $20 pair of Soundesign speakers which are not designed to produce any response lower than 100hz then you are either going to hear nothing or what you do hear will be less than ideal.
For me if you gave me $50K and told me to upgrade my system, I would most likely go and find a good set of Infinity IRSV and some reasonable priced amps, etc. and call it a day. My approach would definately not be to spend $45K on amps and electronics and $5K on speakers. This is simply my opinion YMMV.
I've had more speakers than components and electronics over the years and I feel that the changes in speakers have had more effect than the electronics have. I have had many speakers starting with manufacturers like Soundesign, then moving to Mirage, Bose, JBL, Paradigm, Klipsch, KEF, Dahlquist, and many others.
What I have found is that given the other factors and components remain the same (amplifier, CD player, DAC, turntable, speaker wire, interconnects, listening room, etc.) the speakers you connect to the system will provide the greatest impact and change to sound quality/quantity.
Now I am not saying that changes to the components will not have an effect, a cheap amplifer with cheap design and parts will not likely be able to drive a nice pair of speakers to their best capabilities or may even damage the speakers if the power provided is overly distorted. However, if you try to play a song or even a test tone of say 20hz through a $20 pair of Soundesign speakers which are not designed to produce any response lower than 100hz then you are either going to hear nothing or what you do hear will be less than ideal.
For me if you gave me $50K and told me to upgrade my system, I would most likely go and find a good set of Infinity IRSV and some reasonable priced amps, etc. and call it a day. My approach would definately not be to spend $45K on amps and electronics and $5K on speakers. This is simply my opinion YMMV.
While I agree , I’m still amazed at the differences in sound in my receivers hooked up on the same speakers . The mac1900 big wall of warm euphoric music sound great but not to detailed , but very non fatiguing ! The carver hr772 very powerful clean detailed but no warmth ! The realistic sta2290 clean powerful slightly warmer than the carver . My favorite the sta2080 for me it’s the right balance of power warmth and detail , vocals really shine on this unit very engaging , excellent tone mid and bass control ! All are good units each with its own charatoristics ! So while I agree the speakers are one of the most important part of the systems amplication is also up there and I guess it depends on which is your weakest link of the two !
Just out of curiosity, how do you know that at least some of the differences you’re hearing between the three receivers aren’t in the preamp stages? I can’t tell you how many times over the years I’ve blamed a component for some characteristic that I found undesirable only to find that the issue lay partly (or even wholly) somewhere else.
I consider it to be a "chicken or egg" kind of thing.
After I'd picked up a 350w/ch Carver M1.5t power amp for $60 and tried it on several pairs of speakers I owned (all KEF, from R500's to LS50 to LS50 Meta), I then sold all those speakers and got a pair of new (B-stock) KEF Reference 1 speakers for $5k. OMG.
I did later sell the Carver amp for a bit of profit and bought a Luxman L-505uX Mk2 integrated amp to better-serve the total system, but I'll maintain that as long as you've got enough amp to drive your choice of speaker to just a little louder than you normally listen (headroom), speaker quality is paramount.
After I'd picked up a 350w/ch Carver M1.5t power amp for $60 and tried it on several pairs of speakers I owned (all KEF, from R500's to LS50 to LS50 Meta), I then sold all those speakers and got a pair of new (B-stock) KEF Reference 1 speakers for $5k. OMG.
I did later sell the Carver amp for a bit of profit and bought a Luxman L-505uX Mk2 integrated amp to better-serve the total system, but I'll maintain that as long as you've got enough amp to drive your choice of speaker to just a little louder than you normally listen (headroom), speaker quality is paramount.