Check it out - unusual 1950 Garrard Model M belt / idler turntable

loomis

loomis

bland
Hey check this unit out. I just got it. It's pretty neat. I've never seen another one before. It's a 1950-ish Garrard Model M.

garrard1.jpg


It's filthy and the motor has a lot of vibration (I guess you guys call that rumble), but it seems that it might be worth restoring.

garrard2.jpg


I think it's cool that it has a belt driven idler wheel.

And, the idler wheel is made out of melamine or melmac or whatever it was called!

garrard3.jpg


So how does one begin to disassemble the motor to get it smoother? At least it's spinning at about 34.5 rpm pre-restoration on 33 speed.

Also, as you can see, it has some auto-start and stop mechanisms, which I will remove.

Do you think it's worth restoring? The arm has an audax stylus on the end, but the whole arm needs replaced or gutted and converted to stereo. As it is now it just scratches right across the record lol.

Loomis
 
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Wow, thats different.

For rumble issues, start with those rubber grommets. They're probably shot by now, and one is visibly off-center. Hardened belts and idler wheel will also not help, nor will a dirrty / dry main bearing or motor bearings. If its a typical Garrard type motor, you can probably sneak a needle oiler in there to get some oil in the top and bottom bearings. If not, you should be able to drop it out of there and split the motor in half to access the bearings. Oil the intermediate wheels and the idler wheel center bearing as well, and get some oil in the main spindle bearing. If the spindle bearing is gummed up, clean it out as best you can with rubbing alcohol, then oil it.
 
Tonearm would need replacement and do make sure it does not vertical rumble. Idler and motor mounts will need attention and belt replaced.
 
Ooh thanks for turning me on to the RC80's mechanism. Now I have another parts and research source.

I would keep it original, however, somehow someone put an Audax headshell and such on the arm, and the headshell is cracked and superglued. Moreover, the arm just scratches right across the record. The arm weighs a ton and really just needs replaced, unless I can figure out out to get it to track correctly once the headshell/cartridge problem is fixed. Providing that is even possible.

However, old transcription arms are getting expensive unfortunately, and I'm not sure if the mount is standard (I think it is), so I'll have to do more research.

Thanks
 
beatcomber said:
The drive system looks very similar to the late '50s RC80 series.

rc80m.jpg
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Early 1950s, actually (1952?). The Garrard RC80 was the direct contemporary of this single record player, just as the Garrard RC88 was to the Model T.

Vertical rumble can be a problem with these. I'd prefer to preserve and restore it to original condition. It COULD be of use in playing 78s, where high tracking weight and vertical rumble are non-issues.
 
Thanks for the "turret drive" info.

I know that a lot of us are presevationists, and trust me, there are many things that I prefer to restore to stock condition.

However, a couple months ago I watched a similar turntable sell for a grand total of about $30. I paid less than that for this one. If this were a 401 or something then I would certainly not alter it.

My thoughts were that since this is such an attractive unit, with perhaps a standard-ish tonarm mount and desirable idler wheel mechanism in a nice plinth, that I would attempt to gut the automatic portions, fix the rumble, and replace the arm, and use the unit daily.

Furthermore, I don't do 78's and I don't do mono LP's. I also rarely do 45's. So me worrying about mono LP's and/or 78's in really a non-issue, and possibly disabling those portions of the turret drive may also be in order.
 
loomis said:
Thanks for the "turret drive" info.

I know that a lot of us are presevationists, and trust me, there are many things that I prefer to restore to stock condition.

However, a couple months ago I watched a similar turntable sell for a grand total of about $30. I paid less than that for this one. If this were a 401 or something then I would certainly not alter it.

My thoughts were that since this is such an attractive unit, with perhaps a standard-ish tonarm mount and desirable idler wheel mechanism in a nice plinth, that I would attempt to gut the automatic portions, fix the rumble, and replace the arm, and use the unit daily.

Furthermore, I don't do 78's and I don't do mono LP's. I also rarely do 45's. So me worrying about mono LP's and/or 78's in really a non-issue, and possibly disabling those portions of the turret drive may also be in order.
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It's appealing for the aesthetics and historical interest. As for high performance playback... I have my doubts, further bolstered by comments about potential rumble with this model.

If replacing the tonearm, I'd probably build a DIY wood unipivot, suitable for a MM cartridge and spinning LPs. A cheap and simple way to experiment.

I wouldn't expect a lot out of it though. For a similar DIY project I used the guts (platter & motor) from a Marantz direct drive turntable. Excellent speed accuracy and no audible wow/flutter or rumble.
 
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that every idler wheel turntable that I explore that is not a 301, 401, or TD124, has issues. The few that don't have issues are getting expensive. Not as expensive as the aforementioned models, but getting expensive nonetheless. For example, I'm now starting to see Rek-O-Kuts and such getting into the $400 range, and all the other Presto's and whatnots that I bid on end up resulting in me being outbid.

So I find myself wondering how possible is it to convert these sub-$100 Garrards into something really nice and usable? And I thought this Model M, which doesn't have a ton of the automatic crap in the way, might be a possible guinea pig... But maybe I'm wasting my time?
 
loomis said:
Ooh thanks for turning me on to the RC80's mechanism. Now I have another parts and research source.
Click to expand...

Too bad - I just donated an RC80M to Goodwill (after removing the GE VR-II cartridge).

The arm weighs a ton and really just needs replaced, unless I can figure out out to get it to track correctly once the headshell/cartridge problem is fixed. Providing that is even possible.
Click to expand...

The VTF is probably adjusted via a thumbscrew attached to a spring connected to the rear of the tonearm. Look under the plinth where the arm shaft comes out.
 
loomis said:
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that every idler wheel turntable that I explore that is not a 301, 401, or TD124, has issues. The few that don't have issues are getting expensive. Not as expensive as the aforementioned models, but getting expensive nonetheless. For example, I'm now starting to see Rek-O-Kuts and such getting into the $400 range, and all the other Presto's and whatnots that I bid on end up resulting in me being outbid.

So I find myself wondering how possible is it to convert these sub-$100 Garrards into something really nice and usable? And I thought this Model M, which doesn't have a ton of the automatic crap in the way, might be a possible guinea pig... But maybe I'm wasting my time?
Click to expand...

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If you've got the time, why not give it a shot. I probably would although I wouldn't sink a lot of money into it.
 
So who is a good source online for the rubber washers / grommets / motor mount things, as well as these little rubber belts in the turret?

Thanks
 
I got my rubber grommets from the hardware store. Seems to me I stacked 2 of them together to replicate the size and shape of the original. The idler wheel I had rebuilt by Terry's rubber rollers. If yours isn't totally petrified it may work well enough to test run the machine tho.
 
Assuming the motor and platter bearing is good, I'd be interested to see how far you can take this sonically by modifying the pants off it. For grommets, etc, see the silicon gel ones used for (budget) TD124 mods.

Radio control hobbyists use vibration control grommets for their motors.
 
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