Classical music: digital or analog

My point is simply not that he can't enjoy them, but that if he ever goes to move them, he'll have a much harder time. Just check the completed sales on eBay for the stereo LSC Shaded dogs vs, the mono LM ones and you'll see what I mean.
 
Andyman said:
My point is simply not that he can't enjoy them, but that if he ever goes to move them, he'll have a much harder time. Just check the completed sales on eBay for the stereo LSC Shaded dogs vs, the mono LM ones and you'll see what I mean.
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I agree with you there. Mercury Living Presence too.
 
It all depends on the recording, the digital transfer file, and the DAC. I won't go back to vinyl. Listening to high quality DSD files on my Auralic Vega via the Sony HAP-Z1ES sounds awesome to me. I started years ago with vinyl like everyone else. Won't go back to a medium that wears out and can't match digital's dynamic range. Everyone has their own opinion, but if I was just starting out purchasing music and looking for system upgrades I would recommend going digital!

Just so you know bad digital recordings and poor masters played on inferior DACs is why some people stay on vinyl. Also, large vinyl collections, an unwillingness to invest in more equipment, and repurchasing digital music prevents many from taking the plunge into digital. Digital never wears out like vinyl and tape!

Digital rules (for me)!
 
Selmerdave said:
Digital is also inherently compromised, and I would say classical shows this more than any other format. Rendering of string instrument overtones is rather different between the two.
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Not if you have a high quality DAC and good source material.
 
Many thanks to all who have replied - they have been very, very helpful to me. In the end, I think I have decided to spend up to $1K to invest in a turntable, cartridge, and phono stage. I was also able to get a close friend to help examine the collection earlier today. Unlike me, he used to be deeply into vinyl but sold everything in early 1990's. He is in the process of getting back to vinyl, but does not have a turntable yet, so I was not able to audition the records on his equipment. As a token of thanks, I will let him pick some nice albums from the collection. I start to listen to classical music about a decade ago, but I am not familiar with older generations of performers. But my friend is. He gave me the following notes after going through the collection: a very wide selection of music, a lot of orchestra work ranging from Baroque to the 20th century, but also with a healthy concentration on piano, violin, cello, and chamber music. Many Deutsche Gramophone (including early tulips), Phillips, London (but few Decca), US Columbia (more two-eyes than six-eyes), some later EMI but few ASD, some audiophile pressings under RCA Living Stereo shaded dog, maroon Mercury Living Presence, Argo, Telarc. Mostly stereo, but some mono for instrumental music on Westminster, Capitol, which my friend thinks are valuable from a collection perspective. Also some less known but what he thinks are interesting labels such as Harmonia Mundi, Telefunken, Erato, nonesuch, Hovhaness on Poseidon Society, etc. The records are in very good condition, but cleaning will help improve the listening experience. He gave me some performers' names that he liked, although I am not familiar with many of them: Furtwangler, Jochum, Gould, Richter, Gilels, Milstein. I know I have a lot to learn, but I am excited about this.
 
Sounds like a great collection. I certainly wouldn't pass it by. Now that you've decided what to do, I hope you enjoy it very much. I think you are in for a lot of fun.
 
That is going to be fun to listen to. What a list, "Furtwangler, Jochum, Gould, Richter, Gilels, Milstein," you will have a great time with this. We can generalize about labels but honestly if you want (e.g.) Bernstein you need Columbia, and you live with the sound.
 
Selmerdave said:
I find that higher frequencies is where there is the largest difference between digital and analog. Instruments like violins and cymbals sound between wrong and not quite right, I find comparing a vinyl analog recording with a CD release of the same recording a particularly clear demonstration of this, speaking generally. In jazz recordings there is a fundamental difference between the rendering of cymbals on masters made before the digital era and digital remasters. Hi-res seems to make an improvement in that regard but it is not equal to analog.

I'm not as anti-digital as I sound, I can appreciate good digital and there are examples where it is particularly well-done, and of course not every analog recording is flawless. But speaking generally the above has been my experience.
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Well to me this is much more complex than that vinyl has a certain kind of sound, and digital has a certain kind of sound. Much more complex.
 
Also, I am giving a dozen of so "duplicates" to my friend. I cannot remember all the details, but I remember the following:
Reiner conducting R. Strauss, Also Sprach Zarathustra. We found two copies. One is a shaded dog RCA Living Stereo with the conductor on the cover. I was told this was the very first commercial release of a stereo recording. We found another copy of the same performance on the maroon Victrola version, and he is taking that one.
Nathan Milstein playing Bach's unaccompanied violin sonatas. One version is on Capitol, mono I remember and another one is stereo DGG. He is taking the stereo one.
Found two identical copies of Karajan conducting Bizet's Carmen on RCA Soria Series. Both are stereo, but one is sealed. He is taking the opened copy.
Two identical copies of Eugene Jochum conducting Carf Orff's Carmina Burana. I am giving him one of the two.
There are a few more, but I cannot remember. We both are in need of building up our vinyl equipment so that we can listen to them.
 
gusten said:
So You don´t think vinyl is better than digital?
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No, I never said "better than". I do think there is a difference in how the sound comes across in each format and I do generally prefer vinyl, particularly with classical music as pertains to this thread. Different people have different priorities when it comes to sound and will ultimately have different preferences.
 
Selmerdave said:
No, I never said "better than". I do think there is a difference in how the sound comes across in each format and I do generally prefer vinyl, particularly with classical music as pertains to this thread. Different people have different priorities when it comes to sound and will ultimately have different preferences.
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No big deal but I think You wrote that the treble in vinyl was better than treble in digital, and that you had listened with top DACs; but the vinyl was the better one.

But if it only was so that You preferred vinyl, for some reason; my mistake.
 
sqlsavior said:
Hmmm. I would suggest that this is mainly due to a change in common classical mic'ing techniques. My CD box sets of classical early stereo recordings (Mercury Living Presence, RCA Living Stereo) have plenty of hall sound. They were commonly recorded with only two or three microphones, whereas in the digital recording era, the more microphones and the more tracks, the merrier, it seems. Good for instrumental detail, but bad for the being-there sensation.
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You`re correct, and you`re on to something here. Audiophiles has talked for decades now about how cd sounds bad, as if it is the cd-format that is the problem. They seems to forget that the 24- and later 48-track mixers appeared on the scene in about the same time, + the compressors a.s.on. And only a wery few of those guys behind those mixers knew how to use them.

I`ve been through this discussion many times, often when listening to rather extreme setups. Instead of arguing with the guys I pick up this old Count Basie two-tube-mic recording from the fifties that I stumbeled over on a cd outside some book-store. When I put this old recording on the guys just shut up and starts to tap their feets, smiles appears and we can all hear that we "are there" back in time. I have this little map with cd`s on this level that I often bring with me on audio-sessions. Pc-burned copies btw, they sounds better.
 
gusten said:
No big deal but I think You wrote that the treble in vinyl was better than treble in digital, and that you had listened with top DACs; but the vinyl was the better one.

But if it only was so that You preferred vinyl, for some reason; my mistake.
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Better to refer to what I wrote then, I did not say "treble in vinyl is better than treble in digital", or that either was better. I expressed my opinion and what I hear and how I formulated that opinion as it pertains to classical music.
 
Great! At the very least, get a Spin Clean to clean them.

Since you aren't familiar with Turntables, either buy new or if there is a reputable audio store that sells used, look there.

There are some really nice carts (Audio Technica, Ortofon, etc.) in the $100-$300 range. Try to aim high. I also recommend the Schmitt Mani as a preamp.

I have at least that number of classical LPs. I also have a fairly extensive collection of classical CDs. We can quibble about LP vs CD sound quality. Nevertheless, you can get a lot of enjoyment out of the LPs you are getting.
 
BoezR said:
Also, I am giving a dozen of so "duplicates" to my friend. I cannot remember all the details, but I remember the following:
Reiner conducting R. Strauss, Also Sprach Zarathustra. We found two copies. One is a shaded dog RCA Living Stereo with the conductor on the cover. I was told this was the very first commercial release of a stereo recording. We found another copy of the same performance on the maroon Victrola version, and he is taking that one.
Nathan Milstein playing Bach's unaccompanied violin sonatas. One version is on Capitol, mono I remember and another one is stereo DGG. He is taking the stereo one.
Found two identical copies of Karajan conducting Bizet's Carmen on RCA Soria Series. Both are stereo, but one is sealed. He is taking the opened copy.
Two identical copies of Eugene Jochum conducting Carf Orff's Carmina Burana. I am giving him one of the two.
There are a few more, but I cannot remember. We both are in need of building up our vinyl equipment so that we can listen to them.
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I'm pretty sure I also have two different copies of that Reiner Zarathustra. I'm a HUGE Reiner fan partly because his time with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra coincided with them having the best brass section ever assembled (Bud Herseth, Arnold Jacobs, Philip Farkas.....)! Many of these guys literally wrote the book on their perspective instruments. Any of the Reiner/CSO recordings of pieces that highlight the brass section are worth checking out. Zarathustra certainly falls in that category. That Carmina Burana should be a good one to.

DougMac said:
Great! At the very least, get a Spin Clean to clean them.
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I second this suggestion. Your enjoyment of your vinyl will be significantly magnified if you have a proper cleaning method. The less noticeable any surface noise is the easier it is to enjoy the music especially for classical music due to the abundance of quiet passages. As to which cleaning method you use, that's an entire other can of worms and I recommend some search around on the forum to glean that answer. Don't try and start a thread asking what the best cleaning method is because no only is that just asking to be spoon fed, but that horse has been beat to death and there is no one answer or even consensus. I will say that there are methods out there that range from super cheap to very expensive but there are effective solutions at every price point.
 
BoezR said:
I am guessing this has been debated many times before, and I don't mean to restart it. I am looking for your practical advice. It seems like I will have a chance to inherit from a source a large collection (several hundreds at least, could be over 1,000) of well chosen and well preserved classical music or audiophile LP records. I love classical music, but have never listened to them on vinyl before. These days I stream them online from lossless digital sources. Should I invest in a turntable and phono amp or better spend the money on purchasing classical music in digital forms? What is your suggestion? Thank you.
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Does have to be an either/or thing? It's possible, it seems to me, to get a turntable and have money left over for digital files.

I'm a digital guy myself, and see vinyl as a medium from which to extract information for digital purposes. So I wouldn't know what to recommend as a centerpiece turntable in a livingroom sound system. But if you want access to the information on those LP's -- and there's a LOT of information there -- you'll have to get a turntable of some sort.
 
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