Critical fq range 300hz- say 4k hz not right = DISTORTION/FATIGUE

JoeESP9 said:
In any case, what does that have to do with full range or not...
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Electrostatics need to be large to produce much SPL because of their limited diaphram excursion. Large diaphrams at high frequencies result in a narrow beam of sound. In order to spread the high frequencies a small diaphram would be needed, but that wouldn't produce much bass at a reasonable SPL. This neatly illustrates the trade-offs and compromises involved in speaker design - optimize one thing at the expense of another, or in other words, you can't have it all.

I will add this, though: some of the best sounds I've heard have come from electrostatics.
 
Henzefan said:
None of them have made for good long-term listening for me. Some have been very entertaining for short periods of time


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The only speakerr, abviously as everyone here knows I am Voxativ's worlds biggest fan-atic (No have not heard them), had you eliminated just that 1 name, Vox from your extenisve list as fatigue ridden speakers,,I just may have believe ya,.
Vox , fatigueing = Rasies a red falg if you really know what fidelity is and is not.
Sorry ain't buying about Vox as *crappy*
Click to expand...

Spent extensive time listening to them at the Munich High End audio show, several years in a row. They were literally just down the hall from where we were exhibiting (Hall 4). One of my friends was in love with them at the time- and we wound up in there a lot.

Once I heard their defects- as I said, there's no un-hearing that.

BTW: My friend has also moved on away from them as well, now...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
That's the main difficulty with these. If the caveat of having to have just a SINGLE good listening position is not a problem


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Very few can deal with the sweet spot thiny, It would grate my nerves all day long.
And can we really say maggies are superior to the new wide band?
Old wide band = Lowther/Fostex = dated, old school.
= Nice try, and thank them for their service and ideas,
w/o either we might not have AER and Vox...
Or not?
AS really the true high fidelity began in Chicago and Berlin, 1920;'s.
Fact is
xover designs came along hijacked what was beautiful sound and commercialized/consumerized the whole speaker thing.
And folks darnk the snakeoil saying,,,wowow nice sound,

sad
 
some of the best sounds I've heard have come from electrostatics

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I believe what you say,
That ESL's offer far superior fidelity vs wide band, AER/Vox,
I'm not interest in gaining perfect sound at the price i have to pay for ESL,
size+ weight + money factor + uglyiness ,, etc , + power hungry,
I HATE ESL's
 
Once I heard their defects- as I said, there's no un-hearing that

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Odd, in fact very odd, as every comment has been a +
You are the 1st - comment,.
Don't know what to make of your opinion, I really don't
What if I find a contray opinion after i hear them. Is this OK with you?
Besides please list all the defects,.
I need substance not that they are OK, nothing really to get excited over.
I;'m sensing your opinion may be a tad biased, (pun intended)
 
hall from where we were exhibiting (Hall 4).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yep, that tells me alot, Got it.

**we were,,,down the hall in our room,,,**. ,O,,K,,,
 
Henzefan said:
hall from where we were exhibiting (Hall 4).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yep, that tells me alot, Got it.

**we were,,,down the hall in our room,,,**. ,O,,K,,,
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Please try not to be facetious or obtuse.

Though we did not have time to go much to the other buildings- we went in and listened to pretty much every room in our whole building at Munich. Especially our close proximity "neighbors" on corridor E- where Voxativ was located. We wound up in the Voxativ rooms several times, due to my friend wanting to go look at them over and over...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Henzefan said:
None of them have made for good long-term listening for me. Some have been very entertaining for short periods of time


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The only speakerr, abviously as everyone here knows I am Voxativ's worlds biggest fan-atic (No have not heard them), had you eliminated just that 1 name, Vox from your extenisve list as fatigue ridden speakers,,I just may have believe ya,.
Vox , fatigueing = Rasies a red falg if you really know what fidelity is and is not.
Sorry ain't buying about Vox as *crappy*
Click to expand...

Please enlighten me. How can you become the worlds biggest fan of speakers you've never heard?

BTW: ESL's are not heavy. No cabinets, remember.
 
40 yrs off./on exp,
I know what i know, Don't need to hear the Real Deals,
I have some cheap chibnese 4 inch *clones* did I say cheap, I mean 60% ofa whhat a Vox is going to perform, make that 40%.
= not even close to Vox.

The truth of this matter before us is the fact that 70% of USA audiophiles have never heard the term **wide band* High sens, Full range, single drivers. ,,
Its all been about xover speakers.
OK ESL's not heavy
But big? yes
And not good for near field listenuing, my rm is 10x12 x8 = not doable.
ESL's are severe limitations for most audiophiles,
Wide band will become The Speaker by choice for the 21st century Audiophile.
Dont need Nostradamus to foretell.
Its going to happen,
Get yourselves ready.
 
Large ESL's are still the only speakers I'm aware of that are truly full range with a single driven diaphragm. They are also the speakers with the second lowest distortion, right behind Plasma and Ionic drivers. With a moving mass of a few CC's of air, other than the Plasma's nothing else comes close.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yeah , well then, Wide bands will just have to play
2nd *Fiddle*
behind the ESL/Plannars I guess

For me and my musical needs (Classical) these new(since 2010!!!!!! = asleep at the wheel) wide band (call them what you will) are the next best thing since well,
since
sliced bread.
AS they say.
 
Henzefan said:
40 yrs off./on exp,
I know what i know, Don't need to hear the Real Deals,
I have some cheap chibnese 4 inch *clones* did I say cheap, I mean 60% ofa whhat a Vox is going to perform, make that 40%.
= not even close to Vox.

The truth of this matter before us is the fact that 70% of USA audiophiles have never heard the term **wide band* High sens, Full range, single drivers. ,,
Its all been about xover speakers.
OK ESL's not heavy
But big? yes
And not good for near field listenuing, my rm is 10x12 x8 = not doable.
ESL's are severe limitations for most audiophiles,
Wide band will become The Speaker by choice for the 21st century Audiophile.
Dont need Nostradamus to foretell.
Its going to happen,
Get yourselves ready.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of posters here who have as much or more experience as you. I don't know it all and neither do you.

Near field listening is what I do when playing computer games (Nobsound TPA 3116, Minimus 7's, 8" Monoprice powered sub). If nearfield listening is what you are "stuck" with. Remember, with nearfield listening the size of the musical presentation is small just like as should be. I prefer a more realistic soundstage. That's why for music listening I use larger speakers and a larger space.

You are no Nostradamus. Nor are you the Oracle at Delphi. It's already 21 years into the 21'st century and the single electrodynamic speaker boosters are now and will continue to be a minority. Perhaps you should talk up Poultrygeist. He is one of AK's open baffle champions in addition to being a single driver fan. He also doesn't come off as a know it all.

Like what you like. Just acknowledge that others disagree with you and their opinions are just as valid as yours.:eek:
 
OK
Now i see where I went wrong,
I am quite sure there some some qualities of the ESL/Plannars that i would simply enjoy,
Especilly since I listen to big orchestra, , ESL's might presenta glorious soundstage for full symphony,
The wide bands may have some faults as you say, like any other design.

Ck out Troel Gravesen's top speakers , his biggest and best from the 4 big labs, SB Acoustics, Seas, Scanspeaks, and 1 other can't recall the name
These massive speakers will present one heck ofa full rich soundstage.
The ONLY prombelm I have with Troels designs are
low db, although he claims 91db, (How, hs drivers are all below 90db?/)
Not to mention expensive caps and drivers. =$$$$$$ = not practical for your avg audiophile
His speakers are waht dreams are made of = fantasy speakers..
The weaknesses of these new wide band, I will just have to accept as part of the deal.
But I can not surely accept the weaknesses of the commercial xover designs, The Thiels, Walsh's. Tannoy, Vandersteens, B7W's

can't say i've heard any of them in real sound test, but i get a idea based on Youtube uploads,
And the simple fact my Seas Thor drivers trump any from the 5 labs I mentioned.
Don't need to test them in real time, I know how the mids will perform.
=Rejected.
Look whena audiophile makesa Vox purchase, you do not ever see him selling the speaker.
You will not ever see a Ebay listing for Vox and AER on the used market,
These folks know what they have after a veryyyyy longgg line of bad speaker buys in their hobby career.
And we did see a lsiting fora used pair, they'd get snaped up in one day, Maybe even 1 hour.
Wide bands can not be all things to all people.
But for those who have a refined sensibility as to what high fidelity means, then wide band is the only logical , practical choice of all and every design.
These new wide bands have like a cult following.
Just a tiny niche, we represent 1% of all speaker purchases, 1 % of the audiophile community,
But this 1% will gain traction
Its only a matter of time.
This Revolution will take place.
When you see it moving forward,,, you'll recall this post.
In 50 years there will not exist any xover speaker labs,
Less than 50,
Sales are already dropping hard due to The New economy. = Nota good economy for hobby sales.
Except only the very best designs will sell.
Gone will be the Vandy's B&Ws, Wilsons, Thiels, Tannoy's.
Out of Business.
And watch it, there is one lab trying to clone its speakers based on the real deals, the AER/Voxativ.
I will not mention that lab.
But I know its a scam, a mere clone of AER/Voxativ.
There will be snakeoil wide band out there and folks will be confused.
There are only 2 real deals, AER and Voxativ. All others are bogus frauds.
 
You went wrong by trying to come off as the audio Messiah. You're not.:D

In ten years single driver users will continue to be a small part of the audiophile crowd.

Every single driver speaker I've heard sounds thin and weak to me. Sure they have a great midrange and do female vocals very well. ESL's do both better with the addition of being demonstrably more full range.

What always comes up in discussions like this is the "so called" inability of ESL's to play loudly. My Acoustat Spectra 22's are rated to produce 110dB A weighted @ 18' in a 14' x 22' x 8' room. Acoustats with more panels will play even louder.
 
You went wrong by trying to come off as the audio Messiah. You're not.:D

Just trying to givea fair warning to newbies who will buy some wide band speakers,
I am giving thema a fair warning to watch out for the fakes, the frauds, = The Clones
DavidLouis, Lii, and Cube Nenuphar audio speakers, all 3 clones of the Real Deal. There are only 2 authentic wide band high fidelity labs in the world, AER and Voxativ, All others are frauds and fakes.
Alot of folks will get burned, I can see it a comming....
Can't be prevented, it will happen some will drink the snakeoil.
Dont believe one word of this scam review

https://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/cubeaudio2/1.html
 
Henzefan said:
But for those who have a refined sensibility as to what high fidelity means, then wide band is the only logical , practical choice of all and every design.
These new wide bands have like a cult following.
Just a tiny niche, we represent 1% of all speaker purchases, 1 % of the audiophile community,
But this 1% will gain traction
Its only a matter of time.
This Revolution will take place.
When you see it moving forward,,, you'll recall this post.
Click to expand...

R.55066e916f0834f637222e20458342ed
 
Why not encourage "newbies" to listen and decide for themselves

~~~ Decide freely ? How?
When all that is promoted (propagandized) here and elsewhere, Audiogon, is xover types.
There is me and maybe 3 others in the entire audiokharma that believe wide band is the future, all we hear about on this site is the old school xover stuff.
Free decision?
Its all biased for dysfunctional xover speakers.
 
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