CSS Criton 1TD-X $400 crossover?

britpoptwo

britpoptwo

Active Member
I have been researching kit speakers and I am leaning towards a pair of CSS Criton 1TD-X
The X has the better tweeter
The big question - is it worth spending the extra $400 on the crossover upgrade?
From what I have learned from the pictures on their website and the very positive You Tube reviews the standard crossover is made up of Dayton Audio parts and the upgrade features Jantzen caps and lager air core inductors.
But will I hear a difference using my NAD C160 pre and C270 power amp - Power output: 120 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)
 
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It's hard to say without knowing what the upgrade components are. A high end 3mH air core inductor could be $40. The benefit being less likely to saturate under load. But you'd have to play them at somewhat high volumes for an extended time to saturate an I-core. Resistors alone would be $50 more. You may have the speakers longer than the amp so it might be worth it, in the long run. As to whether or not you'd notice, that depends on many things. Most people wouldn't notice without something to compare against.
 
I listened to a pair with the upgraded crossover at CSS unfortunately they didn’t have a pair with the standard crossover for an AB comparison.
I purchased the kit with the standard crossover to keep within my $950 budget.
They sound great and I don’t feel like I am missing anything with my old ears so far.
The X models still have the better tweeter and there was no pressure from the CSS team to buy the $400 crossover, it is an easy upgrade later if I want to swap out the crossover with the bigger air cores and Jantzen superior caps.
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I’m very interested in this post. I’m seriously considering buying the 1-TDX. My skills are such that I’m convinced that I can get an excellent sounding speaker that will look great for less than the factory price of a comparable quality speaker. The question is - $400 for air core inductors and Jantzen caps?

Are there any credible measurements or objective A/B listening tests that provide evidence that it improves SQ for the typical use case?
 
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It looks like the Jantzen Superior-Z caps are quite the step up in pricing, compared to Dayton capacitors. Those 4 Superior-Z caps alone, are a $200 price jump. With upgraded resistors and inductors, plus capacitors, the $400 cost premium seems justified.

As to sound quality differences and improvement, better caps have made a difference to me, in my personal experiences. There's also, the Humble Homemade Capacitor Test, that describes the sound differences in various brands and series of capacitors. Worth a read, and my comparisons to the caps tested, corroborate Tony Gee's finding. IMO. :D
 
I am also considering the 1TDX. And like the OP I also wondered about the ~$400 price premium of the upgraded crossover.

Well, being up for a challenge I sussed out all the parts and their values based on readily available information and pictures on the internet about the 1TDX crossovers. And I can confidently report that adding up all the parts including down to the resistors on the Parts Express website the total would actually be right in the ~$400 ball park to place an order for a pair of crossovers.

Now the caveats are that I am sure CSS is getting quantity discounts. And that doesn't take into account the substitution factor of backing out the price of the standard (Dayton Audio) parts from the basic kit. So hypothetically say the quantity discount is 10%, and the Dayton package runs 25% of the cost of the Premium package (I'm just WAG'ing here), then we might be looking at a markup of 35%? Maybe even up to 50%? I'm sure my math leaves something to be desired and would really only be willing to confidently argue the point if I was able to side-by-side compare COG's and BOM's for both levels of products. But from the hip it looks reasonably justified to me.

Ages ago I earned a Business degree and in another life(s) have worked as a Project Manager, Production Manager, and Shop Foreman. And so I don't begrudge any business engaging in the entirely standard practice of marking up every component that passes through their hands. That's just good business.

Now for me, I am weighing the real question of this thread...is it worth it (sonically, personal satisfaction, etc). Law of diminishing returns and all that, I gotta say that I am personally leaning towards the upgrade path. I wish I could do a side by side. Or at least find some really good reviews that do a side by side of the two flavors. Without that I think the two factors pushing me towards the upgrade are personal experience and self knowledge.

My personal experience with having done upgrades with Jantzen Superior Z's and also Dayton caps in both speaker crossovers and as coupling capacitors, my anecdotal takeaways are that I've never been disappointed in the Jantzens. And the Daytons have satisfied the requirements at the time, but didn't excite me. I thoroughly acknowledge a high probability of expectation bias being a factor for all the objectivists out there. But I happily embrace my biases as it's my hobby and I'll spend my money how I please, thank you.

I also have enough self-knowledge to know that I will always wonder and admit that I will not be able to avoid upgrading parts eventually. So I might as well do it now and let that itch be scratched with other projects.

My 2 cents. Really just thinking out loud here. I may actually pull the trigger in the next couple days. Now the questions for me are Baltic Birch or MDF cabs? And grills?
 
Having built a number of speakers from various materials, I now use only quality plywood. It's acoustically better and easier on your respiratory system. Grills are only for aesthetics and almost always interfere with high frequencies.
 
dogwan said:
I am also considering the 1TDX. And like the OP I also wondered about the ~$400 price premium of the upgraded crossover.

Well, being up for a challenge I sussed out all the parts and their values based on readily available information and pictures on the internet about the 1TDX crossovers. And I can confidently report that adding up all the parts including down to the resistors on the Parts Express website the total would actually be right in the ~$400 ball park to place an order for a pair of crossovers.

Now the caveats are that I am sure CSS is getting quantity discounts. And that doesn't take into account the substitution factor of backing out the price of the standard (Dayton Audio) parts from the basic kit. So hypothetically say the quantity discount is 10%, and the Dayton package runs 25% of the cost of the Premium package (I'm just WAG'ing here), then we might be looking at a markup of 35%? Maybe even up to 50%? I'm sure my math leaves something to be desired and would really only be willing to confidently argue the point if I was able to side-by-side compare COG's and BOM's for both levels of products. But from the hip it looks reasonably justified to me.

Ages ago I earned a Business degree and in another life(s) have worked as a Project Manager, Production Manager, and Shop Foreman. And so I don't begrudge any business engaging in the entirely standard practice of marking up every component that passes through their hands. That's just good business.

Now for me, I am weighing the real question of this thread...is it worth it (sonically, personal satisfaction, etc). Law of diminishing returns and all that, I gotta say that I am personally leaning towards the upgrade path. I wish I could do a side by side. Or at least find some really good reviews that do a side by side of the two flavors. Without that I think the two factors pushing me towards the upgrade are personal experience and self knowledge.

My personal experience with having done upgrades with Jantzen Superior Z's and also Dayton caps in both speaker crossovers and as coupling capacitors, my anecdotal takeaways are that I've never been disappointed in the Jantzens. And the Daytons have satisfied the requirements at the time, but didn't excite me. I thoroughly acknowledge a high probability of expectation bias being a factor for all the objectivists out there. But I happily embrace my biases as it's my hobby and I'll spend my money how I please, thank you.

I also have enough self-knowledge to know that I will always wonder and admit that I will not be able to avoid upgrading parts eventually. So I might as well do it now and let that itch be scratched with other projects.

My 2 cents. Really just thinking out loud here. I may actually pull the trigger in the next couple days. Now the questions for me are Baltic Birch or MDF cabs? And grills?
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After drooling and looking at various kits I went for the 1TDX with the superior crossovers. I'm really looking forward to making them. I chose the MDF flat pack. Speaking with Dan there he said there's no difference in sound quality output. I didn't want to pay the extra for the plywood. I'm planning on veneering them anyway, and since that's my skill set, it should be fun.
 
I never did order the CSS kit. Shortly after my above post I stumbled on a pair of Canton Karat 100 speakers locally. After a little restoration work and upgrading the parts on the crossovers I've been thoroughly enjoying them. Being nice little 3-ways with the sticky mid and tweet domes ala' A/D/S style, they scratch a lot of itches. Still think about the Tritons from time to time though. Maybe after the New Year I'll revisit.
 
What really helped
dogwan said:
I never did order the CSS kit. Shortly after my above post I stumbled on a pair of Canton Karat 100 speakers locally. After a little restoration work and upgrading the parts on the crossovers I've been thoroughly enjoying them. Being nice little 3-ways with the sticky mid and tweet domes ala' A/D/S style, they scratch a lot of itches. Still think about the Tritons from time to time though. Maybe after the New Year I'll revisit.
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dogwan said:
What helped me order some was this Black Friday savings. It helped differ the crossover cost a bit.
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dogwan said:
Are you saying you ordered the Triton's and got a Black Friday discount?
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Yes. Ordered the 1TDX with the superior crossovers. MDF flat pack. I guess they have a sale every November. ANY savings helps! I think they had a discount on everything at the time. Check them out and see what on sale.
 
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