Decisions......Thiel CS1.2?.....Vandersteen 1C? 2CE?....or Paradigm?

Bigboi33

Bigboi33

Dazed and Confused
I'm having a hard time here.....Unsure which way to go. I really need the expertise of Audiokarma's finest.

I have a choice on a pair of :

1) Thiel CS1.2 in Piano Black, still packed away in original boxes
2) Vandersteen 1C's in Black with original boxes
3) Vandersteen 2CE with sound anchor stands
4) Paradigm Monitor 7 Version 1
5) Paradigm Monitor 5's Version 1
6) Paradigm Studio Ref 80

Right now I'm on the long road to saving up for my dream system. I need something in the meantime to hold me over. Truthfully, I really screwed up hanging out at my local dealer assisting with a few things here and there. At one point I got to spend close to 8 hrs listening to a Jeff Rowland and Wilson Audio Sophia setup. I am now addicted to the high end sound. Sooner or later that will be my direction. Right now however I need to get into something that will satisfy me in the meantime.

The speakers mentioned above are my current choices. Price is not an issue, I will be trading my current pair of Wharfedale Evo2-20's or my old pair of Energy Connoisseur C4's. They're both good speakers and I could keep them. But like most of you I want the best I can get. I want to find a speaker that has the best synergy with my current setup. Right now, the Wharfedale's has a very smooth and full midrange. However, not the best imaging and a bit rolled of in the high freq. The Energy's is all there with imaging, HF extension and big soundstage. However, the midrange and mid bass can use a tad bit more detail and texture.

My current system:
1) B&K PT-3 Preamplifier
2) B&K ST2140 a pair, currently running vertically biamped.

I also have a choice of my vintage setup:
1) Pioneer Spec 1
2) Pioneer Spec 2

I do not wish to change either combo. Both hold sentimental value and I really don't want to spend any time or money on changing them. I prefer to change speakers only.
As far as the sound I'm looking for....Well, first and foremost I understand synergy. But sadly, finding the right synergy takes a lot of time to nail and I don't have time to go back and forth listening to each and every single one. I'm hoping to use the knowledge here on AK to narrow down the list above to something like two maybe three best case possibilities.
My top 3 preference is:
1) Dynamics
2) Imaging
3) Bass Extension, I don't want to use a subwoofer...I prefer just left and right.

Bright or HF extension is a plus but not a requirement. I don't mind a bright speaker as long as the HF is clean and easy on the ear. Bass is much more important because my room is a small but well treated 10'x11' with corner "Chunky" bass traps, first and second reflections points absorbers, as well as Front and Rear absorbers. Due to the small room, I understand I will be near field with a lot of the speakers listed, I'd say at the most maybe 5ft listening distance. But, truth is I like a big dynamic sound. I have done my research and understand from the experts that this is a super tough endeavor. Regardless, I want to get as close as possible to have a setup where I can listen at low or high volume and still retain dynamics.

I hope that's enough info to help me out. Please ask if there is more info needed. Personally I have never hear the speakers mentioned. As I mention, I want to narrow the list down a bit. This way I can audition two or three and then make my decision. I wish I had more time to do so. But we all know how life is.

Thanks to you all on this great site!

SIDE NOTE:
My past speakers:
1) Altec Lansing A7's
2) Altec Model 19
3) Klipsch LaScala's
4) Acoustat Spectra 22
5) KEF 105.1
6) ESS AMT 1B
Sadly all are gone now due to my room size in our new house. I tried to keep them in storage for the future. However, I hate hoarding and prefer to let someone enjoy them for what they are supposed to do. So sad to just see them sitting there without any love.​
 
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I've owned several speakers by Paradigm, including the last version of the Monitor 5. I have also owned a couple of Vandersteens, I currently have the latest version of the 2Ce Sig II (w/ 5A midrange). Also, I have spent time with Thiel's back when there was a local dealer; however, my experience is with the newer 3.7 and 1.6.

Both the Thiel's and Vandersteen's are time and phase coherent, so they share the commonality. Personally, most of the speakers I have owned since I was first introduced to Vandersteen speakers, have been time and phase aligned; however, I don't wish this to start a debate on those merits.

The Thiel's are slightly tilted up on the highs. I would not call them harsh by any means. The Vandersteen sound, particularly the 2's has been refined and matured over the past several decades. I would highly suggest buying the newest version you can afford, if you are looking to by them. The Sig II is much more revealing than the older iterations, but that should not be confused with bright. They are smooth, musical, and never harsh. Some words of caution on Vandersteen speakers ---- Based on your room size I would suggest the 1Ci. Setup is critical; I have a 12x14 acoustic treated dedicated room. I would love to have a pair of 3A Sigs, but they will simply not work well in a room that size. I feel like what I have now is as large as reasonable. I think the 1Ci could be perfect for you; they pretty efficient and have very good bass, all due to their transmission line design. Go to the Vandersteen website and download the owners manual. It contains very detailed setup instructions. Nail the setup and man, do they have a killer soundstage and imaging.

Concerning the Paradigm's, I have owned my Monitor 5's for well over a decade. They are "retired" but still get some occasional usage. I have owned these longer than any other pair of speakers, a great value, I think this speaks volumes....enough said. I like the engineering they put into their designs.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions.
 
You have a chance on some Vandersteen or Thiel ?

Gawd !

Forget the Paradigms... they come up all the time... in my vicinity, never, ever saw Vandersteen nor Thiels.

Would grab them in a jifey (after a thorough listen ).... Paradigm...mmmmhh... good, but could do better.
 
hjames said:
Well, go for the Vandersteen 2CE with Anchor stands over the Vandersteen 1 series
Click to expand...

Personally, I disagree. Properly placed in a 10x11, he will be right on top of them. For a room that size i would rather have the newest version of the Model 1 over an older Model 2. The bass will likely be over emphasized in a room that small with the 2CE. I never had a desire for a sub when I had the 1Ci's in my 12x14 room. With an authoritative SS amp, they play very low in a small room.

Yes, the proper stands are an absolute must for the Model 1, 2 , and 3 speakers.
 
In a larger room, I'd lean towards the 2Ces, esp with the stands. They are a smoother sound than the Thiels.

The Thiels, when perfectly operational, setup and driven, are amazing. Most of my experience is with a bit higher up the line, the 2.x and 3.x series. They are nearly as good as anything in my opinion. More natural and realistic than most Wilsons in my experience which tend towards a hyper-detailed sound. Enjoyable but more fatiguing.

The Thiels will cop a more Wilson-like sound signature. I liked the 2Cis so much I came very close to buying then when the 2Ces first came out. I say they do lots of things right and not many things wrong but the Thiel CS2.3, 3.5 and 3.6 are simply better speakers to my ears and definitely sound faster.

In that room, I'd lean heavily towards the Thiels for well-recorded music. In a bigger room, I'd think about the 2Ces and I'd also think about one of the Vandersteen sets if you listen to a bit of not ideally recorded music. They are still great, and a bit more forgiving than the Thiels will be.

I don't think you can go too far wrong with the Thiels or the Vandersteens. I'd probably skip the Paradigm Monitors. The 80s are good. I think they have a different set of strengths than the Thiels and Vandersteens do and I'm sure they have many satisfied owners. In an AV system, I might just take them but for music-only system where detail and dynamics are a priority, I don't think they quite compare.
 
If this is a preference
3) Bass Extension, I don't want to use a subwoofer...I prefer just left and right.

Those Thiels probably won't be your ticket. I personally think most of the lower range Thiels all lack good bass. I did spend some time with the 1.2s and was not impressed driven with a Stratos+.

Find a pair of Dynaudio Audience 82s if you want the bass.
 
Thanks to you all.

I think I'm gonna audition the Vandersteens they sounds like they might fit the bill. The only worry I have is if the Vandersteens will be ok with a close to near field distance. Will this be a huge issue? From what I have read Vandersteens need a good distance from the front wall. I can go about 3ft at most and my seat is about 2.5ft from the rear wall. This leaves me with about roughly 4.5ft from the front of the speaker to my ears. To close you think?

Also as a side note, Techguy mentioned the 2ce's may possibly overpower the room? I do like to listen from time to time at around 85db-90db with 95db peaks. Will the 1c's fulfill this without issue? Or should I follow the advice and go with the 1c?

I may also try the Thiel's. I have read reviews saying they are quite dynamic and the imaging is top notch.
Hyfi, mentioned they don't do bass very well. In my small room will this be an issue? I'm thinking I should have enough acoustic room gain and absorption to make it work, no?

As for the Paradigms, I guess I can save that for a different day and see how the Thiel and Vandersteens do. If anything, I'm hoping they will have good synergy with my pair of B&K ST2140's. Do you all think I'm on the right track here? Or should I be looking at a different style?

Thanks again, everyone I really appreciate the input! I was beginning to think I was on a lonely road in the endeavor!
 
I have Vandersteen 2Cis and 1Bs, and I use the smaller pair in a room that's only slightly bigger than yours. The 1Bs sound great, with plenty of clean bass and good imaging even when located fairly close to the front wall. They are plenty loud for a small space and don't need a subwoofer for most music.

That said, if I were forced to keep only one pair, it would be the 2Cis due to their higher resolution and deeper bass response. Since I may be downsizing to a smaller house in the near future, I was interested in Vandersteen's take on this issue and took a look at the Q&A on their Web site. I learned that the minimum recommended listening distance for the Model 2 is 5 feet and it may be necessary to employ either a high pass or room correction to avoid exaggerated bass as well as some wall treatments to control first reflections. The 1Cs wouldn't require this much effort to work well in the room, but they also don't perform at the same level when both pairs are dialed in.

You might consider giving Vandersteen a call and asking for their advice on using Model 1 vs. 2 for a room that size. You might even end up talking to Richard himself.
 
Wish me luck folks!

I was able to setup some audition time with the Vandersteen 1C's and the 2Ce's. Hoping, one of them will satisfy my ears :music:.
If not I will be moving on to the Thiels.....or possibly somthing else?:dunno:
 
Out of the bunch I've only heard the Paradigm Monitor 5 and Thiel CS 1.2, the later which I've owned.

I really like all the Thiels I've owned. 04a, CS 1.2, CS 2.2. All my other favorite speakers sound very similar. ADS L8e and some custom jobs. That's MY preference.

Good luck finding the ones you like.
 
I've had Vandersteen 1Bs and (now) 2Ces. My primary listening room is 12.5 x 14.5 feet, and the 2Ce speakers sound excellent in that space, placed a little bit out from the wall. I am also a fan of the 1 series, but the 2Ce delivers wider, more detailed imaging and close to an additional octave of usable bass response. Wonderful speakers and highly recommended!
 
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