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Denon DL 103r or Denon DL 301 MK2

oldtexasdog

oldtexasdog

Well-Known Member
I was wondering which would be the better for me as I am a little new at this.
I have a Technics SL1600
For compliance the Technics arm is medium mass, around 12 grams
I understand the 103r is a low compliance cart and the 301-MK2 is a higher compliance cart so would this make any difference on the med mass Technics arm
Your thoughts of both will be appreciated as this is my first dive into the MC pool as I am currently using a Ortofon 2MBronze.
Thank you and have a safe and Covid free holiday!
 
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Yes I believe so as I will be running it thru a Carver C1 pre with the BillD mods. It has both a MM and MC input on rear with various loading values.
 
oldtexasdog said:
I was wondering which would be the better for me as I am a little new at this.
I have a Technics SL1600
For compliance the Technics arm is medium mass, around 12 grams
I understand the 103r is a low compliance cart and the 301-MK2 is a higher compliance cart so would this make any difference on the med mass Technics arm
Your thoughts of both will be appreciated as this is my first dive into the MC pool as I am currently using a Ortofon 2MBronze.
Thank you and have a safe and Covid free holiday!
Click to expand...

Ive tried both the 301mkii and a DL-103 on a stock Technics 1200 arm (similar to yours) - the 301mkii sounded much better and was a happier match.
 
Well sounds like the 301 MK2 then.
If it turns out my C1 pre is not up to the task would a Denon AU300LC be a good choice for a SUT?
 
Crestwood23 said:
Ive tried both the 301mkii and a DL-103 on a stock Technics 1200 arm (similar to yours) - the 301mkii sounded much better and was a happier match.
Click to expand...
You can make the 103 happy with a heavier headshell and balancing the weight as far back as possible using the correct weights this will increase the effective mass of the arm and the 103 will be fine. Technics effect mass is 12g, add a heavy headshell and you can easily add 5-6g, this alone gets you in the ballpark, but balance the weight back by using a small stub weight not a large one (various available) and you will add a few more grams this is more than enough for a 103.
Chris
 
Wait, you say your effective mass is 12.5 or it should be...

22g effective mass on an SL-1600 W/ 6g cart and a 9.5g head shell. So I am assuming you are subtracting the head shell?

22 - 9.5 = 12.5. But what about the 6g cart that is included in that 22g effective mass from the manual?

KcHh4nK.jpg



If you are to strip this down to bone... 22g effective mass listed in manual.

Subtract head shell 9.5g
Subtract cart 6g

= 6.5 effective mass.

Now, add back in your head shell 9.5 (assuming you are using the original head shell) = 16

I mean, you are still good though with the MK II. Damn fine cart too.

klSVMDp.jpg


VQjGJV4.jpg
 
HBTim said:
Wait, you say your effective mass is 12.5 or it should be...

22g effective mass on an SL-1600 W/ 6g cart and a 9.5g head shell. So I am assuming you are subtracting the head shell?

22 - 9.5 = 12.5. But what about the 6g cart that is included in that 22g effective mass from the manual?

KcHh4nK.jpg



If you are to strip this down to bone... 22g effective mass listed in manual.

Subtract head shell 9.5g
Subtract cart 6g

= 6.5 effective mass.

Now, add back in your head shell 9.5 (assuming you are using the original head shell) = 16

I mean, you are still good though with the MK II. Damn fine cart too.

klSVMDp.jpg


VQjGJV4.jpg
Click to expand...
Yes forgot the mk2 has lighter arm, the mk2 effective mass with the stock headshell is 12g and even the mk2 it is possible to get either carts in a happy compliance place even easier on the OP's arm.
Chris
 
That was super HBTim!! Only wish the price was still 200.00:)
cafe latte-the MK2 I refer to is the Denon cart the Turn Table is not a MK2 just a regular Technics SL1600.
 
oldtexasdog said:
That was super HBTim!! Only wish the price was still 200.00:)
cafe latte-the MK2 I refer to is the Denon cart the Turn Table is not a MK2 just a regular Technics SL1600.
Click to expand...
I used the manual for the SL-1600 and not the MKII. Just FYI.

For fun to see what other choices you have in that dynamic compliance rating you could go here and really open up your options. Reference the chart I listed above and see the ones on green at around 10hz. That will be where you want to land but can stray into the 9hz really.

I picked up and ADC MC 1.5 for $175 and it is wonderful!!

Anyway, put in the ranges you need in this and click search. It will bring up all the carts that will work for your arm. Here is the link.

https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php



aKrEASK.jpg
 
Just picked up a 301 mkII for peanuts. Seller said it needed a new cantilever/stylus, but didn't know anything more than that. Photo showed a cantilver and tip on it, so I wagered a stamp.

The cartridge had a collapsed suspension. I did a battlefield DIY fix, using Nu Skin, or whatever that super glue bandaid liquid is called. Worked like a charm! Listening right now, very smooth but extended response, seems like a good tracker.

Not sure what the compliance is, now that there is some glue on the cantilever. I imagine much lower than the rating, now. But I am very much enjoying the sound.

And the stylus looked very nice under a loupe. Nude elliptical, is it? Anyone have decent microscope photos?

I once borrowed a friend's 103, and thought it rather undetailed and not very engaging. Not sure how much is my memory. But if my memory is correct, I like the 301 much more than the 103.
 
@HBTim, I use VE and the calculator often. On the right hand side of your screen shot is another field I can't seem to bring up. The left hand side, yes but not the right side. Weird.

BillWojo
 
BillWojo said:
@HBTim, I use VE and the calculator often. On the right hand side of your screen shot is another field I can't seem to bring up. The left hand side, yes but not the right side. Weird.

BillWojo
Click to expand...
I had the same problem on phone. Laptop or desktop seems the only way it shows up.
Try that.
 
Thanks but I'm on my desktop computer. I never knew that field existed until today. Wonder what else I may be missing. LOL

BillWojo
 
BillWojo said:
Thanks but I'm on my desktop computer. I never knew that field existed until today. Wonder what else I may be missing. LOL

BillWojo
Click to expand...
Oh wow ok... what’s crazy is I just tilted my phone e sideways and the field showed up.
So glad I could bring something new here. Awesome.
 
So, if you ask me, "oldtexasdog"

If you ask me the in its price range the DL-301 II is the best route to take to vinyl heaven.


Additional Opinions:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=81143

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/denon-dl-103r-or-denon-dl-301-mk2.941784/


P.S. II I apologize, I didn't realize this original post was five years old. I guess you bought something but, just inform the post. It's just that when I saw Denon 3001 II I became excited and started typing. OP hasn't been here since 2023. geez !

FM





2k
 
Last edited:
My two bits here... I've used both DL-301 Mk-II and DL-103 on Thorens TD-125 and TD-124. To these old pair of ears they sound nearly indistinguishable. They are very similar in sound.

But...

1. The DL-103 compliance wise, is way more stiff. It dates back to dinosaur tonearm days when effective mass TA's were common in the broadcasting industry. In my experience any tonearm with less than 19g effective mass cannot utilize the DL-103. You can't make this baby sing with less. The DL-301 is more compliant (out the top of my head I think it's twice as much) so can be used on a wider range of tonearms.

2. This may be of less significance, but my DL-301 cantilever simply fell off one day out of the blue. I had a thread about this and it turned out I was not alone. Maybe a bad run, maybe circumstantial, but it happened and it pissed me off badly. My DL-103 and DL-103R are fine and never had an issue. ...Oh and they don't need a SUT. A good MC phono stage will do just fine.
 
A friend of mine has had both and he said he like the 301 better. I know it tracks my Ortofon test record better thn the 103 does. He hhas a SL 1300 G. But on some of his older less well taken care of records that my Duynavectors tracked perfecttly and made dubs of for my self. He said the 301 made the strings sound harsh. So he bought a JICO fine line stylus assembly for his Shure V-15 MK V. He prefers that cartridge. I think I liked the 301 better, but then I never heard it mis-tracking either.
 
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