Design Acoustics PS 10's

[fiddlefye]

This morning I got inspired and dragged out a pair of Design Acoustics PS 10's that I've had kicking around for awhile. They're an interesting design as they manage to pack three drivers into a very small package, the bass driver being 10". The bass drivers were refoamed last year, but when I listened to them I wasn't all that impressed. This morning I put them in the system with the Technics SA 700 in place of the EPI 50's and was really surprised by what I heard; nice balance, excellent dynamics and imaging.

Next comes rebuilding the crossover, so I'm wondering if anyone happens to have a schematic for the PS 10's. I've posted at the Design Acoustics group site as well, so maybe I'll have some success.

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[fiddlefye]

Found the schematic... yay!

 

[bowtie427ss]

I think there might have been some crossover revisions depending on which series you have. They're pretty straightforward aside from a couple large value electrolytics that form a high pass filter for the woofer, depending on what you choose for replacements you could be pushed for space on the board.

I recapped some for a friend last year and using all dayton poly's things got tigt but it was doable and once burned in they were a significant improvement over stock IMO.

You might also want to be sure to have some 1/4 inch female push on terminals handy as again depending on the vintage/series they can be brittle and easily break.

One of my favorite small speakers.................... enjoy!!!!

 

[thedelihaus]

No schematics, but I did notice when I had hooked up my pair, they were less than impressive- at first.

Some relatively short time playing and they seemed to get much, much better.

Now, I've been told this was due to one of two things-

1) Either the caps re-forming, or

2) My ears and brain getting accustomed to 'em.

Now, I totally subscribe to #2, but I don't discount the possibility of #1.

And in this case, I'd wager strongly in the favor of the caps "reforming", by no scientific knowledge, mind you, but pure gut feeling, as it was, to me, a dramatic improvement, and not sublte and languid in approach, but a rather quick change, and quite prominently heard.

My PS-10s were the late model, with the stock 5-way binding posts and an improved, lower reaching woofer (approx. 2-3 HZ), than the earlier, but really didn't give off the bass notes until I placed them closer to the back wall, or on a shelf. This helped load the bass notes.

Imaging is a strong point of them, hence the "PS" moniker, which stands for "Point Source".

I recently sold mine to another AKer, and if I ever get some spare drivers from a few AK friends, will send them his way if he wants them.

The weak spot was the woofer on these, as it's a shallow design to fit properly into that cube cabinet. Later PS-10s were taller- less cubed than rectangle. This was the 10a, I believe, and had a typical, standard size woofer in them.

The Design Acoustics site is an excellent one, and run by a former AKer who really knows his stuff.


EDIT- there is also the possibility of things like the foam developing play in them, that could result in a dull sound initially, and later as it flexes a bit, more of an intended sound.

I've got experience with speakers, but not enough yet to form an opinion on this last tidbit.

 

[fiddlefye]

No schematics, but I did notice when I had hooked up my pair, they were less than impressive- at first.

Some relatively short time playing and they seemed to get much, much better.

Now, I've been told this was due to one of two things-

1) Either the caps re-forming, or

2) My ears and brain getting accustomed to 'em.

Now, I totally subscribe to #2, but I don't discount the possibility of #1.

And in this case, I'd wager strongly in the favor of the caps "reforming", by no scientific knowledge, mind you, but pure gut feeling, as it was, to me, a dramatic improvement, and not sublte and languid in approach, but a rather quick change, and quite prominently heard.

My PS-10s were the late model, with the stock 5-way binding posts and an improved, lower reaching woofer (approx. 2-3 HZ), than the earlier, but really didn't give off the bass notes until I placed them closer to the back wall, or on a shelf. This helped load the bass notes.

Imaging is a strong point of them, hence the "PS" moniker, which stands for "Point Source".

I recently sold mine to another AKer, and if I ever get some spare drivers from a few AK friends, will send them his way if he wants them.

The weak spot was the woofer on these, as it's a shallow design to fit properly into that cube cabinet. Later PS-10s were taller- less cubed than rectangle. This was the 10a, I believe, and had a typical, standard size woofer in them.

The Design Acoustics site is an excellent one, and run by a former AKer who really knows his stuff.


EDIT- there is also the possibility of things like the foam developing play in them, that could result in a dull sound initially, and later as it flexes a bit, more of an intended sound.

I've got experience with speakers, but not enough yet to form an opinion on this last tidbit.

The PS 10's I have are the earlier model with the shallow basket woofer. I have to say, not an impressive driver when I pulled it out, but then it was designed for the purpose and does it better than I would have thought. I suppose the later design won't fit my model? I haven't done the re-cap as yet, but the speakers had been a decade in a storage unit somewhere before I got them, so there could easily be something to the caps reforming. I've certainly heard this in other gear I have, so why not in the PS 10's? I was really surprised by what I hear today, they sound just a bit like my Vandersteen 2C's in a way. Man, for such small speakers can they ever take the watts (max 300) and crank out serious SPL, 91 db is pretty hot for something that size.

I'm starting to think maybe the next step after the crossover rebuild is some nice veneer work, maybe some nicely figured maple.....?

 

[fiddlefye]

My PS-10s were the late model, with the stock 5-way binding posts and an improved, lower reaching woofer (approx. 2-3 HZ), than the earlier, but really didn't give off the bass notes until I placed them closer to the back wall, or on a shelf. This helped load the bass notes.

Imaging is a strong point of them, hence the "PS" moniker, which stands for "Point Source".

I really noticed the need for careful placement. I think when I hooked them up the first time they weren't as near the wall as they'd have liked and that was what the problem was. They seem to be "bookshelf" speakers that really are what they claim to be, as opposed to the more garden variety which don't actually function worth anything when put on an actual shelf. Yep, I'm starting to see much more potential than I thought at first. The fun part of all of this is learning something new without spending huge $$$ to do so.

Thanks for the info. I'll have to yank them apart again before long and get them up to snuff. So many projects... keep me off the streets.....

 

[thedelihaus]

...I suppose the later design won't fit my model? I haven't done the re-cap as yet, but the speakers had been a decade in a storage unit somewhere before I got them, so there could easily be something to the caps reforming...I'm starting to think maybe the next step after the crossover rebuild is some nice veneer work, maybe some nicely figured maple.....?

The later design will not work- too deep a basket, and will not fit the box. No worries- treat 'em right and they should be fine.

Glad you agree with the cap-reforming issue. Still not 100% convinced myself, nonetheless if any component so far has swayed me, it's been these.

I'd still re-cap 'em though.

And for the veneer- that was my initial plan. They beg for quality veneer. Or.... a nice prep-job, and an automotive quality shot of gloss black, for a killer piano-black finish. Truly amazing looking speakers, very classy and handsome.

I really noticed the need for careful placement. I think when I hooked them up the first time they weren't as near the wall as they'd have liked and that was what the problem was. They seem to be "bookshelf" speakers that really are what they claim to be, as opposed to the more garden variety which don't actually function worth anything when put on an actual shelf.....

As you see in the brochures, they are advisd to be placed as such. That down-firing woofer, a great woofer indeed, still is in a relatively small enclosure- one no way allowed to produce deep bass. By loading them via the help of corners, a back wall, or shelf, they really enhance the authoritive nature of the bass, when, left out in the open, seems to dissipate to near-non-exisatance, due to the bass firing out from all directions, and nothing for it to react with.

Much like a bookshelf mini monitor does, when placed further away from a wall.

I find my rear-port Paradigm Titans to get boomy too close to the wall, while my similarly sized Baltek 30s with an aperiodic/rectangular rear port love being close to a wall, and sound much, much better when placed as such.

 

[fiddlefye]

I spent some more time listening to the the PS 10's this morning and their potential becomes increasingly clear. I'm also quite convinced that they'll be much better after a re-capping and upgrade to the wiring. I'm not fond of those push-on connectors and so I'll go with a decent-quality, heavier-gauge wire and solder the contacts instead.

My pair of PS-10's have lifting vinyl and a few deep scuffs, so prepping them would be a pain. New veneer will be an interesting project (wanted to do a pair of speakers for ages) and I've kinda planned it out already. Tell me what you think:

I usually like a nice black walnut veneer, but as the basic design of the speakers is unusual and a bit "modern" I though I'd go somewhat non-traditional with the treatment.

Top and sides of the main box done in a nicely figured maple, left fairly blonde.

Front and bottom of the box and the entire base done in a plain maple (or similar wood). The top of the base, front and bottom of the box would be stained black (specialty of mine from my piano work) and the front of the base done blonde to match the main box.

I'd replace the cheesy plastic spacers with maple dowel (left blonde), drilled out to pass the bolts through, with black washers on either end.

I'm leaning toward a nice pad-applied French Polish for the finish (what I use on antique pianos), though I might just do my usual (for speakers) rubbed oil and wax.

Sound good?

 

[thedelihaus]

I spent some more time listening to the the PS 10's this morning and their potential becomes increasingly clear. I'm also quite convinced that they'll be much better after a re-capping and upgrade to the wiring. I'm not fond of those push-on connectors and so I'll go with a decent-quality, heavier-gauge wire and solder the contacts instead.

My pair of PS-10's have lifting vinyl and a few deep scuffs, so prepping them would be a pain. New veneer will be an interesting project (wanted to do a pair of speakers for ages) and I've kinda planned it out already. Tell me what you think:

I usually like a nice black walnut veneer, but as the basic design of the speakers is unusual and a bit "modern" I though I'd go somewhat non-traditional with the treatment.

Top and sides of the main box done in a nicely figured maple, left fairly blonde.

Front and bottom of the box and the entire base done in a plain maple (or similar wood). The top of the base, front and bottom of the box would be stained black (specialty of mine from my piano work) and the front of the base done blonde to match the main box.

I'd replace the cheesy plastic spacers with maple dowel (left blonde), drilled out to pass the bolts through, with black washers on either end.

I'm leaning toward a nice pad-applied French Polish for the finish (what I use on antique pianos), though I might just do my usual (for speakers) rubbed oil and wax.

Sound good?

I bet they'll come out quite stunning!