Digital vs. Analog (for the millionth time)

emaidel

Active Member
Banned
I feel like causing some trouble today, so here goes. When the CD was first introduced back in the early 80's, it was heralded as the audiophile's dream come true: ruler-flat frequency response; ultra-wide dynamic range; no wow or flutter; no mistracking; no inner-groove distortion; virtually indestructible; and most of all, absolutely no background noise.

Now a virtual army has cropped up labeling digital audio as the equivalent of AIDS in the world of recorded music. Who'se right, and who'se wrong? Well, I'm going to take a giant leap here, and decidedly stand firm on the digital side of the audio spectrum.

Now that howls of protest have started to form, I'll explain my rationale. I own thousands of both LP's and CD's and have a number of CD's that are transfers of LP's that I still own. In making direct A/B comparisons between the two, sometimes the CD sounds better than the LP, and sometimes the opposite is the case. It is my sincere belief that digital audio has the potential to be the very best form of both recording and playing back music, but that it just doesn't always live up to this potential. Why? Because of the degree of care the recording engineers took while making the disc in the first place.

I am also a great devotee of classical music, and to me, this is where the digital medium truly shines. Not only can I listen to a symphony, or a piano concerto and not have to put up with endless Rice Krispies singing noisily away, but the dynamic range, depth and clarity of many of my CD's (in particular, Telarc CD's) puts the same piece on an LP to shame.

Telarc goes to great lengths to produce fine sounding discs, and over the years has steadily improved their recording techniques. A recent recording of Berlioz' Requiem, using the Direct Stream Digital (DSD) system is one of the finest sounding recordings I own, and puts an older, Vanguard LP to shame in comparison. The same is true of several Deutsche Grammaphon LP's that I once thought were stunning recordings, that now pale when compared to the same piece of music recorded on a Telarc CD.

To be fair, I also own a number of Decca (or London) CD's that are brittle and harsh sounding. Nevertheless, since the opposite is more often true when I listen to CD's or LP's, I think the fairest assessment is what I stated previously: Digital Audio can be, but isn't always, the best medium. When done poorly it really sounds awful, but when done well, it's all but miraculous.

My system is hardly a true audiophile's system as its total retail value is "only" about $10,000. Still, I have a very good CD player/D/A converter, and turntable/cartridge combo, and excellent speakers and amp/pre-amp.

I guess if I spent $17,000 for a new turntable, $3,500 for a new arm and $2,000 for a new cartridge, some of my LP's might sound better, but then that sort of cash outlay is in the realm of the ridiculous. For us mere mortals who spend more on their cars and homes than on their cables and interconnects, CD is, at least for the time being, the way for me.

Let the flood of angry, dissenting posts begin!!
 
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It's not the millionth time, less than 1200th anyway. If no one likes your thread or is tired of the subject, they don't have to read it.

I disagree and I have less than $750 in my turntable, then again I have four 500 CD racks nearly full of classical too.

Hey, music is meant to be enjoyed, pick your flavor and run with it.
 
start with high quality program material...

If you have a poor recording to begin with, playing it on an exotic high-end system cannot repair or replace the missing or damaged program material! In fact a more revealing high-end system might be ...hmmm.. more revealing?? ... and therfore make the flaws in the source material more obvious to the listener. This is true regardless of the format.

I don't see a great deal of merit in the "which is best" debate... because to me there is no single right answer. In my opinion it is more productive to understand the strengths and weaknesses of each medium, and use that knowledge to optimize your system to match your needs/desires.
 
I process sounds through my ENIAC. Nothing sounds better than a guitar in ANALOG, baby! Here is a picture of me replacing one of the tubes:

Programando%20Eniac.jpg
 
In an ideal world

hpsenicka said:
If you have a poor recording to begin with, playing it on an exotic high-end system cannot repair or replace the missing or damaged program material! In fact a more revealing high-end system might be ...hmmm.. more revealing?? ... and therfore make the flaws in the source material more obvious to the listener. This is true regardless of the format.

I don't see a great deal of merit in the "which is best" debate... because to me there is no single right answer. In my opinion it is more productive to understand the strengths and weaknesses of each medium, and use that knowledge to optimize your system to match your needs/desires.

This would be the last word on the subject. Very well put! :thmbsp:
 
This thread's going pretty much in the direction I expected, though no one yet has accused me of being tone deaf, audio ignorant, or just plain stark raving nuts. In the meantime, I've listened to the third movement of Tchaikovsky's Pathetique Symphony - first on a Deutsche Grammaphon disc (which, though horribly noisy, sounded quite good) and then on a Telarc CD. If this were the sole means of comparison between the two mediums, there'd be no discussion whatsoever as the Telarc CD blew away the LP. But I know that other analog recordings (of other material) can and do sound pretty amazing.

I'm leaving now for the rest of the day. I'll be interesting to see what's posted here upon my return!
 
As a relative newcomer to AK I don't mind seeing this type of post.

In fact immediately before logging onto AK I had just finished a conversation with an aquaintance in which we were discussing this very debate (he not really being 'into' this hobby at all). When he asked me whether I felt vinyl or CD was "better" I did tell him what my experiences were and they do in fact mirror emaidel's almost to the letter!

I still am a music junkie first, gear a close second, and I find benefits (both costwise and sonically) in each format!

Hey, if I score a great used CD on eBay for a buck I'm happy, and if I get an old LP for a dime at SallyAnn I'm ecstatic :banana:

Cheers
 
As long as no one gets nasty, threads like this are valuable, even for the "1,200th" time. AK has grown to over 10,000 members and most of the newer members were not here for the original debates. For example, emaidel has a join date of Aug 2005. I enjoy reading posts from new members as they add new life to AK (not that I am one of the original members).

Keep em coming. :thmbsp:

Regards,
Joe
 
I like the post

Every day there are posts like prior ones. How many posts have you read about cleaning faceplates, refoaming speakers, asking how this or that speaker sounds, and others? I think the digital v analog is a favorite and will always be. Why? Because it gets at the core of why we do this. I have read at least 30 analog v digital posts, and really enjoyed emaidel's. It's articulate, well written, and even piqued my interest in a particular piece of classical music. The fact is enthusiasts tend to be interested in the same things and love to talk about them over and over. It's normal. Car enthusiasts will always talk about displacement v. turbo v. supercharged and handling v. straight line acceleration and chevy v. ford and 2 wheel drive v. 4 wheel drive and on and on. When I pick up a car magazine, it looks the same as the ones I read as a kid. When I go on vacation and come back to AK, many posts look familiar, and some almost the same as prior ones. I would guess that folks who 'have heard it all before' will avoid the repetitive posts and be drawn to new ones, while others, like much2learn, will soak up all sorts of insights from 'worn' topics. And then I think there's a third group who will chime in over and over because they enjoy everything audio... and that's fine too. I guess there's something here for everybody.
 
mg196 said:
I process sounds through my ENIAC. Nothing sounds better than a guitar in ANALOG, baby! Here is a picture of me replacing one of the tubes... [/IMG]

:rofl:

I'm a vinyl guy but I do understand that digital guys are wankers, audiophools, etc.



















:tongue:


Pete
 
doesn't your musical experience of digital vs analog recordings have mainly to do with the interconnects and speaker wires you are using?
 
Yes.

shrinkboy said:
doesn't your musical experience of digital vs analog recordings have mainly to do with the interconnects and speaker wires you are using?

but only in car stereos that have Bose sound systems.
 
em,

All kidding aside I tend to agree with your statement

"It is my sincere belief that digital audio has the potential to be the very best form of both recording and playing back music, but that it just doesn't always live up to this potential."

with the caveat that I don't think the current digital format slices up the music into small enough bits to sound as good as the infinite bits of analog.

That is at least what I hang my hat onto when I think the highest notes like cymbals sound worse on cd than lps, to me. I also think music sounds more lifelike overall on lps. This is subject to the equipment I've heard and quality of recording.

I do agree that cds generally sound clearer with less interference like pops, etc, however imho a truly clean lp can be amazing.

Just my .02 of course. Whatever floats ones' boat is fine with me.

Pete
 
emaidel said:
Let the flood of angry, dissenting posts begin!!

You could make the case that all digital does is approximate the analog waveform with an ever increasing number of steps. That being said, I haven't spun vinyl in a decade and haven't missed it. I mostly listen to CD's & 160-192K internet streams anyway so what do I know?

Still sounds like music to me & can raise goosebumps. Going through a tea ceremony everytime I wanted to listen to 21 minutes of music was a pain in the ass & I still have my Dual 502 & Sansui SR-313 TT's + ~800 LP's in case I want to be reminded.
 
I listened to 3 albums a few days ago: Romantic Warrior (love this album, but the drums are so incredibly compressed moreso than the other instruments seem to be)
Shakti-Natural Elements (much better sounding than the RTF lp above-great percussion)
Permanent Waves (atrocious reproduction of a not memorable album for Rush fans)

The gradation of quality was glaringly obvious from one to the other.
Comparing to a cd I made of Porc Tree from the flac files on my PC, the cd was better than the Rush lp, but inferior to the Corea and Shankar/Mclaughlin lp's.
 
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