Disappointed with Geshelli J2 4499EX

belgianbrain

belgianbrain

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Hi,

I've been a multibit DAC addict for years. With the rave reviews of the AKM 4499EX, I decided to try the Geshelli Labs J2, 4499EX version. It's fully tricked out with Sparkos opamps and USB input. I also have a Schiit Wyrd cleaning up the USB signal from my Raspberry Pi Roon endpoint and custom linear power supply for it. Unfortunately, after much evaluation, here's my ranking with my other DACs:

1. Schiit Yggdrasil+ OG A2 with unison USB
2. Adcom GDA-600 (completely rebuilt with upgraded capacitors and Sparkos opamps)
3. Schiit Modi multibit 2
4. Adcom GDA-700 (completely rebuilt with upgraded capacitors and Sparkos opamps)
5. Geshelli Labs J2 4499EX with Sparkos opamps

DACS 2-4 are all very close. The Yggdrasil is the clear winner. Unfortunately, the J2 seems to be the clear loser. It sounds great and is extremely detailed, until you put it up against any of the others, which seem to have a lot more body on the lower half of the register. The J2 just seems lean in the vocals and on the bottom end.

Seems a bit disappointing considering the J2 is ~$720 configured as I ordered it and the Modi is $299.

Just curious if anyone else has had experience with the J2 comparing it to multibit DACS.
 
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No experience with 2/4/5, but agree on Yggy+ being a great DAC. On the spendy side, of course, so expectations should be high. Modi multibit 2 holds its own too.
 
belgianbrain said:
Hi,

I've been a multibit DAC addict for years. With the rave reviews of the AKM 4499EX, I decided to try the Geshelli Labs J2, 4499EX version. It's fully tricked out with Sparkos opamps and USB input. I also have a Schiit Wyrd cleaning up the USB signal from my Raspberry Pi Roon endpoint and custom linear power supply for it. Unfortunately, after much evaluation, here's my ranking with my other DACs:

1. Schiit Yggdrasil+ OG A2 with unison USB
2. Adcom GDA-600 (completely rebuilt with upgraded capacitors and Sparkos opamps)
3. Schiit Modi multibit 2
4. Adcom GDA-700 (completely rebuilt with upgraded capacitors and Sparkos opamps)
5. Geshelli Labs J2 4499EX with Sparkos opamps

DACS 2-4 are all very close. The Yggdrasil is the clear winner. Unfortunately, the J2 seems to be the clear loser. It sounds great and is extremely detailed, until you put it up against any of the others, which seem to have a lot more body on the lower half of the register. The J2 just seems lean in the vocals and on the bottom end.

Seems a bit disappointing considering the J2 is ~$720 configured as I ordered it and the Modi is $299.

Just curious if anyone else has had experience with the J2 comparing it to multibit DACS.
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I just got my J2S AK4499 set up the same as yours but with no usb. It is replacing my J2 AK4493 that has been moved to my bedroom system. Sound wise the J2S (Sparkos opamps) as compared to the 4493 is, well……..different. Better? No. Worse? No. Just different. If anything it has a bit more sparkle.

My set up: WiiM mini streamer to J2S, both balanced and unbalanced outs to a Khozmo passive pre, balanced out from Khozmo to two Schiit Gjallarhorn set up as monoblocks, unbalanced out from Khozmo to Dynaco ST-35. Driving a pair of Human 81 and pair of Human 61. I like that both outputs on the J2 DAC’s work simultaneously, so I usually play both set ups together. I also swap speakers from time to time, though I tend to prefer the Dynaco driving the larger model 81 speakers. Anyway, I have never owned any other DAC’s, so…….

I can tell you that my set ups exhibit plenty of body and low end oomph. I’d love to try a good multibit DAC someday.
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I just started using a J2S with the 4499 and Sparko opamps, running via coax from a Node. I think it sounds very good, detailed, good body, much better than the internal DAC in the Node. My issues is the user interface, what the hell were they thinking, it must be designed by the same people that do the parking lot machines:) I got the smoked front, that makes the two buttons invisible. You have to set the source via 4 flashing LED's, kinda like Morse code. press the button until the 4th LED flashes twice. If that is not bad enough, it forgets the setting when you power it off, and the LED's light up then the unit it not powered on!!!!!!! That confused me for a while, I was setting the source and nothing was happening, that's because the thing was not power on!!!!!! When was that a good idea???? I have a Ares II downstairs, so maybe over Xmas vacation I will compare to two.

So good DAC, very poor user interface.

Graham
 
FastG said:
I just started using a J2S with the 4499 and Sparko opamps, running via coax from a Node. I think it sounds very good, detailed, good body, much better than the internal DAC in the Node. My issues is the user interface, what the hell were they thinking, it must be designed by the same people that do the parking lot machines:) I got the smoked front, that makes the two buttons invisible. You have to set the source via 4 flashing LED's, kinda like Morse code. press the button until the 4th LED flashes twice. If that is not bad enough, it forgets the setting when you power it off, and the LED's light up then the unit it not powered on!!!!!!! That confused me for a while, I was setting the source and nothing was happening, that's because the thing was not power on!!!!!! When was that a good idea???? I have a Ares II downstairs, so maybe over Xmas vacation I will compare to two.

So good DAC, very poor user interface.

Graham
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Only if you unplug it will it not save settings. If you turn it off with the on/off button all settings are saved. Or you could leave it on at all times. Have you set the fixed volume setting? It has three; high, medium, and low. Do you have the internal LED lit up? Just asking.

We’re all different and the user interface does not bother me. I committed it to memory in a matter of minutes after first reading the online owners manual. When in doubt, keep pressing the second button until you hear music. Ha!

The sound? Very very good and I have no problems recommending them to anyone looking for a really good sounding DAC. The standard J2 with the AK4493 chip is very affordable and great sounding.
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I forgot to mention that the implementation of the 4499 is different than the 4493. With the 4493 the maximum output of the single ended is 1.8V RMS, balanced is 3.6V RMS. With the 4499 the singled ended has been upped to right around 3.0V RMS and the balanced is right about the same as the 4493 @ 3.6V RMS. It makes a noticeable difference on the single ended in my system as I do not need to have my preamp volume set as high as before. Nice.
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FastG said:
One area I am sure could use improvement is the power supply. The wall wart is tiny, I have an electric clock that has a lager power supply. I will be looking for something like the iFi SilentPower iPower2

Graham
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I didn't understand the switching wall wart. I immediately purchased a 12VDC linear power supply and the improvement was noticeable. Why Geshelli doesn't offer this as an option is beyond me. But, in my opinion, it still couldn't compete with my multibit DACs.
 
:idea: Interesting .. Geshelli Labs J2 AK4499, Sparkos OP Amps RCA option and Amanero USB was on my possible future purchase list but now .. :dunno:
Currently running an old Schiit Bifrost 4490, IFI Mercury USB & Purifier 3. Been running this configuration for a good many year now. Sounds really good to my ears (been streaming for 10+ years).. but I keep watching YouTube video's and wondering ... "How would that sound on my rig?"

 
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Yep, that's the video that prompted me to order it.

Don't get me wrong - it's a good DAC. BUT, I've been rolling DACs for over 10 years now, starting with a couple of Lampizator units.

Let's just say I don't quite understand the hype for it in the $~725 price range. Honestly, I thought my $299 modi multibit 2 sounds better. Perhaps the grammar error in the title is prophetic. :biggrin:

If you want to try it, no hurt in ordering it, though. With the 6 week wait time, you'd have no trouble selling it for close to what it costs you. I just did.
 
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I have failed to "get" Geshelli. Don't like the enclosures or plexiglass end pieces at all. The aluminum ones look 100% DIY. Wait times? Wood enclosures? No thanks. These are chip-based DACs not dissimilar to the ones cranked out by Topping and SMSL by the gazillions.

I appreciate that it's a small family business and my dislike certainly hasn't impacted their popularity but still...
 
Geshelli has bare boned versions as well .. Wood case, Sparkos OP Amps, Amanero USB are just "options". For example one can order a
JNOG2 (J2) .. no USB .. AK4493 DAC Chip .. Aluminum case .. for $249. This would give you 2 toslink and 2 coax ports front and rear.
Amanero USB is + $50 option for a total of $300 (if you desire USB). The choice of options are nice for user preference.

Schiit Modi MB is the real competitor at that price point IMHO. The thing I don't like about the Schiit Modi MB is the USB micro connector.

I do own and like the Topping D10s DAC .. but I use it as a USB to S/PDIF converter and for the LED display of PCM bit rate .. which I find useful on my headphone rig.

As far as "sound" .. the D10s (internal DAC) sounded good, until I compared it to my old Schiit Modi 2 Uber .. being fed a toslink out from the Topping D10s.
 
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I have a J2 that I purchased a couple of years ago when they first came out. It has the optional USB, but that's it. I bought it for a second system. I also have the Schiit Yggdrasil A2 with Unison USB as well as a Sonic Frontiers SFD-1 mk2. The Geshelli J2 is a decent DAC but I bought it because I wanted a $300 DAC. I think it's a mistake to try and trick it out with all the options. While I haven't heard one with the special opamps I would imagine the overall character probably doesn't change much other than a little clarity. Once you get into that $700ish range, the Schiit Bifrost is a better choice especially if you like Multibit.

But to keep things brief, if someone gets what makes good Multibit special, going to a single bit DAC is going to be tough unless it's a lot more money. And even then theres no guarantee.
 
belgianbrain said:
I didn't understand the switching wall wart. I immediately purchased a 12VDC linear power supply and the improvement was noticeable. Why Geshelli doesn't offer this as an option is beyond me. But, in my opinion, it still couldn't compete with my multibit DACs.
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I believe this question was answered in the video below .. at about the 12 minute mark. Geshelli choice of wall wart has to do with the cost/process of getting wall wart testing/approval. The U Tuber got this info from talking with Geno purportedly.
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I upgraded a Geshelli J2 (AKM 4493) to J2S (AKM 4499EX) with Sparkos SS3602 in August, 2023 getting it done before it was announced. I immediately noted a substantial improvement in dynamics and soundstage. Prior to that upgrade however, I bought a 30W linear PS off AliExpress (an alleged copy of a Studer circuit) that had worked well with the J2 and continues to do so. Inputs I use for the J2 are both USB/laptop and Toslink/WiiM Mini (also with an LPS), using both balanced and single-ended outputs depending upon the system routing I choose. I've since further upgraded the Sparkos SS3602 to the huge SS2590s on all outputs, which requires a bit trickery to fit. The bottom end and vocals are definitely not lean here(!), but I don't use wall warts for any sensitive digital electronics, so it is possible that is a factor. The imaging, detail, and punch from this configuration is fantastic - much better than the original J2, and I felt the original J2 was a good buy at the $250-300 USD price point. Anyway, this is just my account and observations.
 
Ted__B said:
I upgraded a Geshelli J2 (AKM 4493) to J2S (AKM 4499EX) with Sparkos SS3602 in August, 2023 getting it done before it was announced. I immediately noted a substantial improvement in dynamics and soundstage. Prior to that upgrade however, I bought a 30W linear PS off AliExpress (an alleged copy of a Studer circuit) that had worked well with the J2 and continues to do so. Inputs I use for the J2 are both USB/laptop and Toslink/WiiM Mini (also with an LPS), using both balanced and single-ended outputs depending upon the system routing I choose. I've since further upgraded the Sparkos SS3602 to the huge SS2590s on all outputs, which requires a bit trickery to fit. The bottom end and vocals are definitely not lean here(!), but I don't use wall warts for any sensitive digital electronics, so it is possible that is a factor. The imaging, detail, and punch from this configuration is fantastic - much better than the original J2, and I felt the original J2 was a good buy at the $250-300 USD price point. Anyway, this is just my account and observations.
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Yup, I am very happy with mine. Tell us how you fit those Sparkos SS2590 opamps in there. I’m curious to see.
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Sliphorn said:
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Yup, I am very happy with mine. Tell us how you fit those Sparkos SS2590 opamps in there. I’m curious to see.
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I had used strictly balanced XLR, so the J2S upgrade I received came with dual SS3602s on the XLR outputs and the default Ti op amp on the RCA (pic 1). I have an xDuoo TA-26 tube headphone amp which I then decided to plumb to the J2S RCA outputs. As such, I wanted to upgrade to the top-tier SS2590 given all the glowing reviews on that op amp, but being greedy, I wanted SS2590s on all outputs.

To make this work, I plugged one DIP8 socket adapter into the op amp socket closest to the XLR jacks in order for that SS2590 to clear the small electrolytic caps adjacent to that socket (pic 2). The inboard DIP8 socket was more of a problem, so I used a carefully manipulated DIP8 socket extender (50mm length) to make it work, which it does just barely (pic 3). I applied a layer of Kapton tape atop that SS2590 to ensure it cannot make electrical contact with the aluminum J2S housing (pic 4), as the fit is very snug. The SS2590 for the RCA output plugged into that socket without any issue (pic 5).
 

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Ted__B said:
I had used strictly balanced XLR, so the J2S upgrade I received came with dual SS3602s on the XLR outputs and the default Ti op amp on the RCA (pic 1). I have an xDuoo TA-26 tube headphone amp which I then decided to plumb to the J2S RCA outputs. As such, I wanted to upgrade to the top-tier SS2590 given all the glowing reviews on that op amp, but being greedy, I wanted SS2590s on all outputs.

To make this work, I plugged one DIP8 socket adapter into the op amp socket closest to the XLR jacks in order for that SS2590 to clear the small electrolytic caps adjacent to that socket (pic 2). The inboard DIP8 socket was more of a problem, so I used a carefully manipulated DIP8 socket extender (50mm length) to make it work, which it does just barely (pic 3). I applied a layer of Kapton tape atop that SS2590 to ensure it cannot make electrical contact with the aluminum J2S housing (pic 4), as the fit is very snug. The SS2590 for the RCA output plugged into that socket without any issue (pic 5).
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You’re very adventurous. Nice work. I use both outputs at the same time to play two systems simultaneously.
 

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belgianbrain said:
Hi,

I've been a multibit DAC addict for years. With the rave reviews of the AKM 4499EX, I decided to try the Geshelli Labs J2, 4499EX version. It's fully tricked out with Sparkos opamps and USB input. I also have a Schiit Wyrd cleaning up the USB signal from my Raspberry Pi Roon endpoint and custom linear power supply for it. Unfortunately, after much evaluation, here's my ranking with my other DACs:

1. Schiit Yggdrasil+ OG A2 with unison USB
2. Adcom GDA-600 (completely rebuilt with upgraded capacitors and Sparkos opamps)
3. Schiit Modi multibit 2
4. Adcom GDA-700 (completely rebuilt with upgraded capacitors and Sparkos opamps)
5. Geshelli Labs J2 4499EX with Sparkos opamps

DACS 2-4 are all very close. The Yggdrasil is the clear winner. Unfortunately, the J2 seems to be the clear loser. It sounds great and is extremely detailed, until you put it up against any of the others, which seem to have a lot more body on the lower half of the register. The J2 just seems lean in the vocals and on the bottom end.

Seems a bit disappointing considering the J2 is ~$720 configured as I ordered it and the Modi is $299.

Just curious if anyone else has had experience with the J2 comparing it to multibit DACS.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I ordered a Ygg because I loved my Bifrost multibit. I sent it back within the trial period as the Bifrost sounded much better to me. Don't know if I had a bad unit or just didn't like the sound. I went back and forth between the two make sure of what I was hearing. Bifrost definitely sounded better. The Ygg sounded veiled by comparison. The only thing that has bested the Bifrost to my ears are the 2 Denafrips I've had. YMMV.


EDIT, my apologies, I had a Gungnir, not the Ygg.
 
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