DIY: A couple beginner questions

If you wanna see what kind of SPLs you can get from say 20 wpc, why not find someone local with an older kenwood integrated or a marantz 2220?

Thats not going to give you tube sound, but will definitely give you a ballpark SPL.

Looking at those speakers, your efficiency is likely pretty high. \

Good luck on the project!!!

Evan
 
My 8b should be singing by the time of the gathering. I will bring her along hopefully someone will have a pre as I am still working on mine and will most likely still be for the next couple of months.
 
spartanmanor said:
My 8b should be singing by the time of the gathering. I will bring her along hopefully someone will have a pre as I am still working on mine and will most likely still be for the next couple of months.
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Looking forward to seeing that... getting excited about meeting everyone too... Sounding like there may be quite a few people bring gear too... will be nice to get a listen to all the stuff everyone plans on bringing.. GOt lots of room for setting up lots of systems :)

My mixer has a pre built in.. but not sure if that is something you can hook into yours?
 
240sx4u said:
If you wanna see what kind of SPLs you can get from say 20 wpc, why not find someone local with an older kenwood integrated or a marantz 2220?

Thats not going to give you tube sound, but will definitely give you a ballpark SPL.

Looking at those speakers, your efficiency is likely pretty high. \

Good luck on the project!!!

Evan
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hhhmm.. nice idea.. I've got a Sansui QR-3500.. I think that's something like 20 or 25 watts if I remember right... I can see what that does for them... I really do think the efficiency is really high on these, because it sure doesn't take much for them to start getting really loud really fast.. even at lower volumes, they seem to be more touchy to the volume knob than the last pair.. this will come up gradually, where as the last pair I had came on at a certian level and there didn't seem to be any way I could get them to whisper.. either lots of volume or no volume.. these I have now will turn on with a really low level of sound..
 
My first tube project was an OTL headphone amp. I struggled with the same issues of cost and system integration that have been brought up here and decided headphones were a great way to remove a lot of the variables and really see what the tube sound was like, without spending a lot of money.
I nice pair of Grado phones and a good tube amp can be very nice. :music:
Here is a nicely documented first project: http://headwize.com/projects/showfile.php?file=bender_prj.htm
This is a derivitive of another nice headphone amp on the same site:
http://headwize.com/projects/showfile.php?file=cmoy5_prj.htm
There are a number of pre-amp tubes with the same pin layout and basic characteristic as these which makes these a good candidate for tube-rolling.
 
JohnW said:
My first tube project was an OTL headphone amp. I struggled with the same issues of cost and system integration that have been brought up here and decided headphones were a great way to remove a lot of the variables and really see what the tube sound was like, without spending a lot of money.
I nice pair of Grado phones and a good tube amp can be very nice. :music:
Here is a nicely documented first project: http://headwize.com/projects/showfile.php?file=bender_prj.htm
This is a derivitive of another nice headphone amp on the same site:
http://headwize.com/projects/showfile.php?file=cmoy5_prj.htm
There are a number of pre-amp tubes with the same pin layout and basic characteristic as these which makes these a good candidate for tube-rolling.
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I've seen and heard tube systems on quite a few accounts, but none of them were a ssytem like I have.. they all had really high end speakers that were made to glow (yeh.. that was intended) with tubes... I do love the sound, so that isn't what I was wanting to know about.. to know what the sound is like... I am looking to see if the output is doable for me.

In my case, I would love more of the warmth, space and seperation you get out of tubes, but I was also wanting to have some really cool looking amps sitting on my shelves.. However, if I can't get the pressure levels out of the speakers I'm used to with them, then I will know they aren't for me.

I'm going to try hooking them up to my low wattage reciever tonight and see what kind of levels I get out of these... When I went to listen to these, the guy had a meter on his amp, and it looked to be pushing about 30 watts at the time, and they were already pretty damn loud, but then again, I don't know if what he had was even any kind of accurate.. At least I'll know with my amp, I'm limited to 25 watts or so if I remember right.
 
As far as a watt being a watt, I'd like to interject some reality. Back in the 50's/60's and even up into the 70's, standards were set about how to measure wattage. Basically, amps were rated at CONTINOUS power on BOTH channels. Manufacturers (at least the good quality ones) at that point preferred rating at a rather conservative level vice disappointing their customers so many might rate an amp at 40 watts that was capable of producting 50wpc. Nowadays you see some POS amp rated at the amperage that it can produce for a part of a second on one channel. Watts aren't necessarily watts.

Beyond that, tubes do clip softly as opposed to s/s amps which are very harsh when they clip. You may not even notice a tube amp being pushed 3 db above it's clipping point but you'll hear harsh sound from most s/s amps even 2 db above. So even if rated at the same wattage, the experiece can be quite different.

The console amp isn't a bad way to try tubes cheaply. Be sure that you get something that's pushpull (two power tubes per channel). Single ended is low wattage (typically 5wpc or less) and not likely to work to your desired levels with your current speakers. If you can find a high end console, the speaker drivers might be transferable to standalone boxes and give you tube friendly amps for cheap too...if you can butcher some wood.
 
markus said:
snag an old tube console (magnavox is my favorite) with a 6v6 or 6bq5 amplifer, get it recapped & freshened up, and if your integrated amp has preouts, plug 'er in and see whatcha think :thmbsp:
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Nah, IMO based on his penchant for "ground-poundin" I would recommend connecting something with some real meat on it's bones like a Citation II , Matantz 8B or newer Conrad Johnson "Premier" series which is just amazingly powerful gear. The CJ Model 140 (140wpc) has some SERIOUS iron and weighs in at 85lbs! But it aint cheap...
JMO
WOT

PS>This looks good sitting on top of ANY stand...
 

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soft clipping???

jcmjrt said:
Beyond that, tubes do clip softly as opposed to s/s amps which are very harsh when they clip. You may not even notice a tube amp being pushed 3 db above it's clipping point but you'll hear harsh sound from most s/s amps even 2 db above. So even if rated at the same wattage, the experience can be quite different.
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Most tube amplifiers to not clip softly. Have you ever looked on an oscilloscope at what happens to a typical tube amplifier as opposed to a typical solid state amplifier when they are overdriven? The “soft clipping” tube amplifiers are usually the single-ended non feedback types which is a small subset of the tube amplifier universe. Most tube amplifiers with feedback will clip just about as hard as a solid state amplifier.
 
WopOnTour said:
Nah, IMO based on his penchant for "ground-poundin" I would recommend connecting something with some real meat on it's bones like a Citation II , Matantz 8B or newer Conrad Johnson "Premier" series which is just amazingly powerful gear. The CJ Model 140 (140wpc) has some SERIOUS iron and weighs in at 85lbs! But it aint cheap...
JMO
WOT

PS>This looks good sitting on top of ANY stand...
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ummmm.. Yep.. that would look fantastic.. but my bank account wouldn't look as good I'm sure, and when it don't look good, no matter how perty something is.. the missus isn't real happy.. especially if it was drained for something she just doesn't understand... I'm gonna take some time and look around and see what I can find just to play around with first.. then I'll start considering what it's really gonna take to get me to the SPL's I need.. er um want :)

I had found and was looking at that Conrad amp last night, and figured I could sell it to the wife by telling her how well all those tubes would keep the house warm, and how much it would save us on heating... LOL...
 
WopOnTour said:
Nah, IMO based on his penchant for "ground-poundin" I would recommend connecting something with some real meat on it's bones like a Citation II , Matantz 8B or newer Conrad Johnson "Premier" series which is just amazingly powerful gear. The CJ Model 140 (140wpc) has some SERIOUS iron and weighs in at 85lbs! But it aint cheap...
JMO
WOT

PS>This looks good sitting on top of ANY stand...
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How about Citation IIs run as monoblocks!? Hernia city, but you could power most speakers quite well. :thmbsp::music::D
 
WopOnTour said:
Nah, IMO based on his penchant for "ground-poundin" I would recommend connecting something with some real meat on it's bones like a Citation II , Matantz 8B or newer Conrad Johnson "Premier" series which is just amazingly powerful gear. The CJ Model 140 (140wpc) has some SERIOUS iron and weighs in at 85lbs! But it aint cheap...
JMO
WOT

PS>This looks good sitting on top of ANY stand...
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Yeah those Citation II's are undervalued in my opinon. Not cheap but undervalued. :thmbsp: I am keeping my eye out for my next project. :D
 
jcmjrt said:
How about Citation IIs run as monoblocks!? Hernia city, but you could power most speakers quite well. :thmbsp::music::D
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I totally agree!! I've been moaning & groaning over this photo for a while now.(from one of the boys over in the Steve Hoffman forums) Too bad I only have ONE Citation II... so far :scratch2:
WopOnTour
 

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WopOnTour said:
IToo bad I only have ONE Citation II... so far :scratch2:
WopOnTour
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At least you know what your next purchase should be!

I've been trying to decide what I want to pursue next....or maybe I should just finish some projects that I've already got! I think I'll just keep buying tubes...and rolling....and...
 
Well the reality is with my '76 Lascalas (105db@1w@1m) I really dont need a second Citation II. It just looks cool IMO
But I know what you mean.
Right now I have no fewer than 5 Harman Kardon amps/receivers "on-the-go" in various states of restoration.
So maybe I just need more speakers?? lol
WOT
 
WopOnTour said:
Well the reality is with my '76 Lascalas (105db@1w@1m) I really dont need a second Citation II. It just looks cool IMO
But I know what you mean.
Right now I have no fewer than 5 Harman Kardon amps/receivers "on-the-go" in various states of restoration.
So maybe I just need more speakers?? lol
WOT
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I can't think of anything wrong with having more speakers... :thmbsp:
 
OK.. so I lugged my QR-6500 up from the basement not remembering how heavy the damn thing is.. that's a work out.. anyway.. I forgot it's a 35 wpc if I remember right now..

I was shocked.. these speakers must be super effecient.. running them from 7'o at off.. .turned it to 9'o .. wow.. you have to shout to be heard... So I was using very little wattage to get them to a fairly high volume level. I should have pulled my meter out and measured the db's but I wasn't thinking...

SO.. knowing this, I could easily see running them on a pair of 140w monoblocks.. I must say though, the sound wasn't near as clean and clear as they sound on my Tapco.. but then again, the Sansui is only 30 years old or so and never been recapped.. .
 
I couldnt agree more. Dont you have any senstivity specs for them??

A Sui QR-6500?
Damn, post that up over in the Vintage SS forums and those guys'll cream their jeans! I say flip that as a down payment on some vintage valves!!
WT
 
WopOnTour said:
I couldnt agree more. Dont you have any senstivity specs for them??

A Sui QR-6500?
Damn, post that up over in the Vintage SS forums and those guys'll cream their jeans! I say flip that as a down payment on some vintage valves!!
WT
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I can't find any information on these speakers.. all I know is they were built latte 80's until about 91 to be sold to military personel at the BX or PX over seas... I know they are 700 watt peak, and sound great.. I can't find any kind of specs on them anywhere.. can only find a picture or two of them on the net...

I posted the QR in the forum when I first got it, gave them the serial for the list and price paid on e-bay.. I even put it up for sale here with not one reply.. I was surprised.. the thing is in really great condition. Just needs some lamps and the fuses fr them replaced.
 
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