DL-103 re-tipping advice

bobdod

bobdod

Super Member
I was given a Denon DL-103 with a broken tip, along with a DP-3000 table. I've never had an MC cartridge and am moving to the Denon from a fairly pedestrian setup. I am not well versed in the different types of cartridges/needles/tips. I reached out to Steve at VAS and he quoted an aluminum/elliptical setup. I am wondering if I should consider other options. I would be using the DL-103 with the DP-3000 (DA-305 tonearm), through a Yamaha C-70 pre to a Yamaha B-2. I'd like to keep the budget below the cost of a new DL-103.
 
Register to hide this ad
Soundsmith put a new boron cantilever/NCL stylus onto my DL-103R. Big leap in performance. Clarity, midrange, better bass, instrument and vocal focus. :thumbsup:

Denon DL-103R (soundsmith) small.jpg
 
Mr Boochie said:
Soundsmith put a new boron cantilever/NCL stylus onto my DL-103R. Big leap in performance. Clarity, midrange, better bass, instrument and vocal focus. :thumbsup:

View attachment 2139428
Click to expand...

While I am sure this would be a huge upgrade, I assume this exceeds the cost of a new DL-103 by a significant amount. I'd like to keep the cost of the rebuild at or below the price of a new cart. Looking to dip my toes in the MC water, and see if it's for me.
 
Many years ago I had a rebuild of the 103R with the ebony body and a Soundsmith Level 3 ruby cantilever and optimized line contact stylus. A nice cartridge but if I had to do it over again I would stick with an aluminum cantilever and use a line contact stylus. The cartridge is voiced for aluminum. I would nude the body and call it good. If I needed more mass then get one of the aluminum bodies to install the innards in. It eliminates body resonances which is an issue with the OEM plastic one.
 
Hi, I use VAS for most of my re-tips & he does a great job, but sometimes he & all of them seem to take an age. If you have a ''pedestrian setup'' then his re-tipped Elliptical stylus & cantilever is all you would require. That is unless you get serious about vinyl & want to shell out a couple of grand.
However the 103 needs a high Eff Mass arm to work at it's best & not loose base, but the Denon site gives no indication of the Eff Mass of the arm, so just try & see. Also do you have a MC input on your amp.

Cheers
 
I find the standard $299 DL103 plays excellently, tracks everything, has zero issues with IGD or mistracking and sounds incredible. I have had the DL160 twice and would have bought again if they still made them but honestly, the DL103 is twice the cartridge the DL160 was.

I doubt you could have a 103 retipped for much less than the price of a new one and turn around for the job is going to be much longer than just buying a new one with a warranty.
 
Pythonman said:
I find the standard $299 DL103 plays excellently, tracks everything, has zero issues with IGD or mistracking and sounds incredible. I have had the DL160 twice and would have bought again if they still made them but honestly, the DL103 is twice the cartridge the DL160 was.

I doubt you could have a 103 retipped for much less than the price of a new one and turn around for the job is going to be much longer than just buying a new one with a warranty.
Click to expand...

I bought two DL-103R from a seller in Japan, at the same time. One went to Soundsmith. One stayed OEM. It took Soundsmith six months to return the re-tipped 103R.

Was it worth? Yes! Comparing the two, there is a big difference in imaging, definition, and separation of instruments and vocals. I haven't heard any cartridges which sound better, in my admittedly limited exposure to other setups. :)

Stock on left. I needed to re-align my tonearm and headshell setup, with the newly re-tipped cartridge.

Denon DL-103R Soundsmith and OEM (1) small.jpg
 
tabarddn51 said:
However the 103 needs a high Eff Mass arm to work at it's best & not loose base, but the Denon site gives no indication of the Eff Mass of the arm, so just try & see. Also do you have a MC input on your amp.
Click to expand...
I plan to use with a Denon table using a DA-305 tonearm, which I believe is a perfect match for a DL-103. The preamp will be a Yamaha C-70, which has MC capability with multiple cartridge load options.

Pythonman said:
I doubt you could have a 103 retipped for much less than the price of a new one and turn around for the job is going to be much longer than just buying a new one with a warranty.
Click to expand...

The costs I've seen for an aluminum/elliptical retip are around 50% of the cost of a new DL-103. The more exotic cantilever / tip options are more costly.

I am looking for a spec that will cost less than or equal to a new DL-103, will work well with my Denon DP-3000 / DA-305 setup, and doesn't require crazy accurate alignment to work well. It sounds like a basic aluminum/elliptical retip is the right move. Can those with experience/knowledge provide some feedback on bonded vs nude?
 
Pythonman said:
I doubt you could have a 103 retipped for much less than the price of a new one and turn around for the job is going to be much longer than just buying a new one with a warranty.
Click to expand...

I have had Steve at VAS do one of my DL-103 with a new aluminum cantilever and elliptical stylus, turn around time was about a week and price was about $150.00.
For me it's a no brainer, I even have several more Denon carts sitting here to be reworked by Steve, a DL-103R and a DL-103D. When a broken one shows up at a good price I try and grab it.
The DL-103 has a great motor in all it's variants, upgrading can really make it better without a lot of cost.
SoundSmith isn't even on my radar, to expensive and way to long of a lead time plus you really don't know who is doing the work.

BillWojo
 
The more you have done to a basic DL-103 the less it's going to sound like one. If you really like the way a stock 103 sounds that's food for thought! While a nude exotic stylus and boron cantilever are no-doubt upgrades, think about what you really want. Denon's conical stylus is very well made - perhaps better than any retipper can supply - and I'm sure contributes greatly to the decades long popularity of this cartridge.

I think that if I were to have one of my 103s retipped today I would choose a nude elliptical on an aluminum cantilever. I'd like to hear exactly what it does in comparison to the stocker before I'd consider one of the more exotic (and expensive) stylus/cantilever options.

But I also like SPUs, so take that into consideration ;)
 
BillWojo said:
I have had Steve at VAS do one of my DL-103 with a new aluminum cantilever and elliptical stylus, turn around time was about a week and price was about $150.00.
For me it's a no brainer, I even have several more Denon carts sitting here to be reworked by Steve, a DL-103R and a DL-103D. When a broken one shows up at a good price I try and grab it.
The DL-103 has a great motor in all it's variants, upgrading can really make it better without a lot of cost.
SoundSmith isn't even on my radar, to expensive and way to long of a lead time plus you really don't know who is doing the work.

BillWojo
Click to expand...
Heard nothing but good about Steve from VAS. If he can do an elliptical on aluminum for $150, that’s a seriously viable option.
 
SB12345 said:
The more you have done to a basic DL-103 the less it's going to sound like one. If you really like the way a stock 103 sounds that's food for thought! While a nude exotic stylus and boron cantilever are no-doubt upgrades, think about what you really want. Denon's conical stylus is very well made - perhaps better than any retipper can supply - and I'm sure contributes greatly to the decades long popularity of this cartridge.

I think that if I were to have one of my 103s retipped today I would choose a nude elliptical on an aluminum cantilever. I'd like to hear exactly what it does in comparison to the stocker before I'd consider one of the more exotic (and expensive) stylus/cantilever options.

But I also like SPUs, so take that into consideration ;)
Click to expand...
Can’t overstate the fact that Denons conical stylus on the DL103 is very well made. Indeed it is. Still benefits greatly from the most careful setup possible and for me it tracks better and plays quieter in the groove than my Hana SH. Sounds far better too!
 
Soundsmith boron cantilever and NCL modification. :)

Waiting For The Bus/Jesus Just Left Chicago.
Off "Tres Hombres." London Records. SHU.8459. DECCA UK pressing. 1973.
Run-out: ACLZ-3522-IL UC1.

dbdf108d-fcb3-4b14-aca8-cec4ef902055.jpg


8c05d65f-b5cb-4ef0-9ee6-3d659c69970c.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom