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Do or can Dealers give discounts on new MC equpment.
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0luke1
Active Member
I've found with audio equipment that it pays to ask at least twice. I've gotten better discounts from the first one by simply saying "OK, I'll think about it" the first time I talk to a dealer and then saying "OK, I'm ready to make a decision" the second time I call.
I've been offered great discounts on Mc equipment, Spendor speakers, etc.
The closest Mc dealer to my house did not offer a discount. He didn't get the business either (none of it - speakers, amps, etc.).
I've been offered great discounts on Mc equipment, Spendor speakers, etc.
The closest Mc dealer to my house did not offer a discount. He didn't get the business either (none of it - speakers, amps, etc.).
ron-c
Addicted Member
The best Mc dealers always are higher priced. They should be as you get a lot more.These are the folks who excel at service, have the best sales people, and have been around for a while. They usually take trade ins, sell used gear with a warranty and service what they sell. They are in it for the long haul and have a loyal customer following.
These top 30% of McIntosh dealers do about 80% of the business. If you are making a purchase for an item you will have for 10 or 20 years, satisfaction is more important than saving a few cents a day. Those that shop for a deal instead of musical satisfaction often end up unhappy.
Now when it comes to heart surgery, cancer treatment or other commodities I always shop for the lowest price because I like the deal....
Ron-C
These top 30% of McIntosh dealers do about 80% of the business. If you are making a purchase for an item you will have for 10 or 20 years, satisfaction is more important than saving a few cents a day. Those that shop for a deal instead of musical satisfaction often end up unhappy.
Now when it comes to heart surgery, cancer treatment or other commodities I always shop for the lowest price because I like the deal....
Ron-C
0luke1
Active Member
I'm all for paying for better service, but when the difference is more than 25% on a four figure purchase, you're not getting better service, you're getting fleeced.
A business which is so out of touch with the marketplace won't be around for 10-20 years.
For example, in 1989 I went to the local Clancy-Paul Computer Center to buy a $5,000 IBM MicroChannel PC. Neither Clancy-Paul or IBM survived in the PC business - but IBM sure did try to protect its "sales channels."
A business which is so out of touch with the marketplace won't be around for 10-20 years.
For example, in 1989 I went to the local Clancy-Paul Computer Center to buy a $5,000 IBM MicroChannel PC. Neither Clancy-Paul or IBM survived in the PC business - but IBM sure did try to protect its "sales channels."
macman007
Mcintosh..Made In USA
Thats because everyone does conputers these days. But not everyone sells stereo equipment.A lot of the names in the marketplace have been around forever, even if changes in ownership and philosiphy have occurred. Mcintosh is unique. Its valued all over the world especially in Japan and these days they make MOST of the consumer audio/video equipment. So for them to value Mc the way they do says something.
Everyone wants a deal. I'm no exception. I like to feel as if I got a good price when I make a purchace. Mcintosh costs more but gives more as well. Thats why is sounds so good and lasts so long. There is not a lot of competition out there in todays world, with regards to quality AND longevity. I have Mc from the 60's all the way up to the 2000's. Its all rock solid. It will probably outlast me.That kind of quality costs money. I'd rather buy something once in a lifetime and add to it if necessary, than buy it 3 or 4 times.
IBM thought it was the only game in town. It was wrong and it payed for it's arrogance.
I don't think Mc thinks its the only game in town but it does appeal to a devoted group who recognises quality and is willing to pay for it, not just a name.
When I go into a Mc dealer and said dealer spends 2-3 hours each time over several visits answering my questions and providing me with solutions (from hardware to financing) with NO pressure to buy, I'm willing to drop the extra dough at sale time. Maybe even get a few freebees (cables etc).
That guy will be there for me when I need him. Almost invaribly the Mc sales reps and some of the others know me by name even if its been 6 months since I have been in the store. Also I see the same sales guys year after year which means they have clientel who pay them well enough to stay year after year. What you pay for is service, before, during and after the sale.
Thats been my experience with MC dealers. My favorite line comes from my father. He always said it and lived by it. He was by no means a rich man or even well to do. But he took his audio seriously. When I was putting together my first system and it came down to price he told me flat out "If you have to ask the price, you cant afford it". I was looking at Marantz and Luxman. Even as a 12 year old I knew Mc was out of my league. I carry that wisdom with me every place I shop. Its not about the name or the money....its about how it makes you feel when you listen to it. There is no price for that kind of satisfaction....
Artie
Everyone wants a deal. I'm no exception. I like to feel as if I got a good price when I make a purchace. Mcintosh costs more but gives more as well. Thats why is sounds so good and lasts so long. There is not a lot of competition out there in todays world, with regards to quality AND longevity. I have Mc from the 60's all the way up to the 2000's. Its all rock solid. It will probably outlast me.That kind of quality costs money. I'd rather buy something once in a lifetime and add to it if necessary, than buy it 3 or 4 times.
IBM thought it was the only game in town. It was wrong and it payed for it's arrogance.
I don't think Mc thinks its the only game in town but it does appeal to a devoted group who recognises quality and is willing to pay for it, not just a name.
When I go into a Mc dealer and said dealer spends 2-3 hours each time over several visits answering my questions and providing me with solutions (from hardware to financing) with NO pressure to buy, I'm willing to drop the extra dough at sale time. Maybe even get a few freebees (cables etc).
That guy will be there for me when I need him. Almost invaribly the Mc sales reps and some of the others know me by name even if its been 6 months since I have been in the store. Also I see the same sales guys year after year which means they have clientel who pay them well enough to stay year after year. What you pay for is service, before, during and after the sale.
Thats been my experience with MC dealers. My favorite line comes from my father. He always said it and lived by it. He was by no means a rich man or even well to do. But he took his audio seriously. When I was putting together my first system and it came down to price he told me flat out "If you have to ask the price, you cant afford it". I was looking at Marantz and Luxman. Even as a 12 year old I knew Mc was out of my league. I carry that wisdom with me every place I shop. Its not about the name or the money....its about how it makes you feel when you listen to it. There is no price for that kind of satisfaction....
Artie
Discounting
In my observations, the dealer who discounts generally isn’t a strong McIntosh supporter. “Oh, yes, I probably have a piece of Mc around here somewhere…or I can get it for you”.
A dedicated McIntosh dealer supports the product. He will have a nice selection on display and is fully knowledgeable about the product and systems that it will work with. He can, and will, let you compare the various amps and sources. He will be there to work out ground loop problems or other issues you may have. And, his investment in the equipment is considerable.
In my opinion if McIntosh were freely discounted, we enthusiasts would have a harder time in finding the equipment. The margins would not be enough for brick-and-mortar stores to justify the inventory investment. Dealerships would go away and then, so would McIntosh!
Our McIntosh dealers need to make a fair profit in order to be there when we need them.
VintageMac
In my observations, the dealer who discounts generally isn’t a strong McIntosh supporter. “Oh, yes, I probably have a piece of Mc around here somewhere…or I can get it for you”.
A dedicated McIntosh dealer supports the product. He will have a nice selection on display and is fully knowledgeable about the product and systems that it will work with. He can, and will, let you compare the various amps and sources. He will be there to work out ground loop problems or other issues you may have. And, his investment in the equipment is considerable.
In my opinion if McIntosh were freely discounted, we enthusiasts would have a harder time in finding the equipment. The margins would not be enough for brick-and-mortar stores to justify the inventory investment. Dealerships would go away and then, so would McIntosh!
Our McIntosh dealers need to make a fair profit in order to be there when we need them.
VintageMac
ron-c
Addicted Member
Vintage Mc hit the nail on the head. No B&M, no McIntosh or any other brand for that matter.
We all have a real job and expect to get paid for going to work. So Oluke what do you do for a living? Is there a way to pay for your labors at a much lower rate?
I used to have a customer in retail who was a surgeon and always wanted a deep discount. I asked him one day why are your services worth what you charge? He said he was a trained professional with years of experience and he is paid so people can regain their health and go on living. So I can get the same services for less somewhere else? I asked him. He just looked at me.
A good retailer also has years of experience and has a large group of employees to pay every week.
I can fly to Thailand and have a major surgery done at about 15% of what it costs in the US. The service is better, the hospitals are better, like a five star hotel, no orderlies as they are all nurses, and you get a tan to boot.
In fact this is just being discovered by the US insurance companies and they are starting to pay for this in full as a way to save money.
So maybe we don't need the surgeon after all?
There is always a better price some where.
Ron-C
We all have a real job and expect to get paid for going to work. So Oluke what do you do for a living? Is there a way to pay for your labors at a much lower rate?
I used to have a customer in retail who was a surgeon and always wanted a deep discount. I asked him one day why are your services worth what you charge? He said he was a trained professional with years of experience and he is paid so people can regain their health and go on living. So I can get the same services for less somewhere else? I asked him. He just looked at me.
A good retailer also has years of experience and has a large group of employees to pay every week.
I can fly to Thailand and have a major surgery done at about 15% of what it costs in the US. The service is better, the hospitals are better, like a five star hotel, no orderlies as they are all nurses, and you get a tan to boot.
In fact this is just being discovered by the US insurance companies and they are starting to pay for this in full as a way to save money.
So maybe we don't need the surgeon after all?
There is always a better price some where.
Ron-C
This could be a tough philosophy to live by.
Full prices on Houses, Cars, labor and electronics.
I personally think negotiation is great, plus keeps inflation on products and sevices down. All doctors should post their fees and qualifications in their office waiting room for everyone to see. Then you can bet their fees would be held reasonable.
Full prices on Houses, Cars, labor and electronics.
I personally think negotiation is great, plus keeps inflation on products and sevices down. All doctors should post their fees and qualifications in their office waiting room for everyone to see. Then you can bet their fees would be held reasonable.
ron-c said:
Aren't all those activities revenue generators? Good salesman=more sales, buy/sell used=more revenue, service=income (even under warrantee)
This doesn't help me understand your first statement (the best are the most expensive). Did you mean that they're so busy, they choose not to?
ron-c said:
So, from this, I take it that you mean stay away from small dealers. But can't a small dealer be good, too? Might he not be small due to where he is?
I'm in for choosing a dealer carefully, by spending some time there, talking to other clients and so on, but that never stopped me from haggling. In fact, I would be much more comfortable negotiating with a dealer I had grown to know, and from whom I expected to buy more with time.
I think that given the fact that most people are quite uncomfortable with negotiating or never bothered to sharpen thier skills that they just don't even ask.
34 years ago when I saved up and bought my first Mac gear I didn't get a discount but what the dealer did for me was include two used cabinets that looked new for nothing and also sold me a pair of Altecs with the provision that when I saved up the money I could replace the Bi-Flex speakers in them with the correct drivers. Also I would get full price when I traded in the Bi-Flex speakers. I realize it wasn't a K-Mart deal but I still have the Mac and the Altecs. Huge discounts make me suspicious immediately. Either the item was over priced to begin with or I'm about to get short changed somewhere down the line. BTW, my MC-2505 & C-26 are at least worth what I paid for them 34 years ago. Which other brands of vintage gear can make that claim?
Small > Large
As someone just pointed out, a dealer in a small town pretty much has to give discounts. He can't take in used equipment, because the small town has no market for it. He can't sell at retail, because his volume is too small to maintain a large inventory, so customers can't hear the stuff in his store. They come back from some big town, or show, and buy cheaper from the little local guy. The owner has only a tiny staff, so he deals with his Mc customers himself, treating them like celebrities, and delights in amazing the folks in Binghamton with a constant stream of orders from a town they were convinced couldn't long support a dealer. No, he isn't a technical genius, but he's right here when I need him, and packs the problem unit up and sends it to NY with a guaranty of safe return.
What Ron-C didn't say is that Mc shuts down dealers who can't keep their volume up, so in a small town, staying alive means discounts. I like my tiny little dealer, and I'm grateful that his discounts allow me to buy more gear and more toward TOTL. I'm even more grateful that he knows me by name when I call, remembers what's already in my system, and has been to my house to deliver new gear so he knows what sound I have and like. I've been to some huge dealers in San Francisco, and they can barely remember you a week after you bought, and you never meet the owner, whose enormous panache allows him to hide somewhere, far from his average customer and serve only real celebrities.
Bottom line: give a small dealer a chance and find out what it's like to be treated well, long remembered, and get a great deal without having to beg!
As someone just pointed out, a dealer in a small town pretty much has to give discounts. He can't take in used equipment, because the small town has no market for it. He can't sell at retail, because his volume is too small to maintain a large inventory, so customers can't hear the stuff in his store. They come back from some big town, or show, and buy cheaper from the little local guy. The owner has only a tiny staff, so he deals with his Mc customers himself, treating them like celebrities, and delights in amazing the folks in Binghamton with a constant stream of orders from a town they were convinced couldn't long support a dealer. No, he isn't a technical genius, but he's right here when I need him, and packs the problem unit up and sends it to NY with a guaranty of safe return.
What Ron-C didn't say is that Mc shuts down dealers who can't keep their volume up, so in a small town, staying alive means discounts. I like my tiny little dealer, and I'm grateful that his discounts allow me to buy more gear and more toward TOTL. I'm even more grateful that he knows me by name when I call, remembers what's already in my system, and has been to my house to deliver new gear so he knows what sound I have and like. I've been to some huge dealers in San Francisco, and they can barely remember you a week after you bought, and you never meet the owner, whose enormous panache allows him to hide somewhere, far from his average customer and serve only real celebrities.
Bottom line: give a small dealer a chance and find out what it's like to be treated well, long remembered, and get a great deal without having to beg!
you pay for what you get
i think you missed the point entirely. good service costs more. say you can buy a 3000 dollar amp via audiogon from a seller in Hong Kong. it arrives and works well until the week before the warranty expires. you are screwed. if you walk into a a well respected shop with career salespeople and techs, get straight info, confidence in service, and piece of mind knowing that the guy that sold you that piece is putting his reputation on the line - youre getting more than just the object. i often pay just a tad more for an item to buy from someone i trust. the person i buy the most equipment from, would jump through many hoops to fix a wrong and keep my business. probably costs me 3-5% more, but i know i wont get screwed - thats priceless. yeah, we haggle some too, but its fun, and the margins on some stuff isnt that great - but the haggling came with years of dedicated service. also, when a really smokin deal comes thru, he calls me...
Aage said:
i think you missed the point entirely. good service costs more. say you can buy a 3000 dollar amp via audiogon from a seller in Hong Kong. it arrives and works well until the week before the warranty expires. you are screwed. if you walk into a a well respected shop with career salespeople and techs, get straight info, confidence in service, and piece of mind knowing that the guy that sold you that piece is putting his reputation on the line - youre getting more than just the object. i often pay just a tad more for an item to buy from someone i trust. the person i buy the most equipment from, would jump through many hoops to fix a wrong and keep my business. probably costs me 3-5% more, but i know i wont get screwed - thats priceless. yeah, we haggle some too, but its fun, and the margins on some stuff isnt that great - but the haggling came with years of dedicated service. also, when a really smokin deal comes thru, he calls me...
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Vinyl Rules!
Well-Known Member
ron-c said:
Ron,
What you say is so true. I put myself through university selling high-end audio. For our top customers, we actually kept 5" x 7" card files on them with everything they'd purchased from us (this was pre-PC days) and we also asked them to keep us apprised of anything the added that they might not have purchased from us. Our objective was to be in a position to offer upgrade advice as new products came into the market, and this service differentiated us from our competitors and drove home the point we were interested in a long-term relationship with the customer and not just selling them the lastest whiz-bang doo-dad. And we did not discount our high-end equipment.
We did sell to many university students and our entry level student dorm room system was discounted down to $399, and, as I recall, it consisted of an H/K 330 receiver, Genesis speakers (similiar to EPI 70's and a BIC 920 TT/Shure M91ED - It sounded damn good and it was worth $399.
We actually would spend a goodly amount of time demo'ing and answering questions about these cheap systems as we found from experience we would get referrals for higher-end, better systems from either the student's parents or the students themselves when they graduated and found a real job. Another plus for us was that we were across from the "jock" dorm and we made certain we were polite and took all the time they wanted whenever they came into our store: The ones that signed contracts with either NBA or NFL teams almost always came back to us for their first good system and interestingly enough, they never dickered on price.
The only negative thing I can say is that we were not the McIntosh dealer in Chapel Hill. I knew John Richmond, the local McIntosh dealer at the time, and he absolutely would not time with anyone unless they had the money to spend right then, so we got 100% of the student athlete business after they signed their first pro contract and got their signing bonus check, they immediately came to our store simply because we had made a decsion to spend time we with them when they were freshmn, sophmores, and juniors even it there wasn't an immediate payout. We were thinking long term, and I sold a lot of expensive equipment at full margin to many professional NFL and NBA players who graduated from UNC-Chapel Hill in the 1970's.
ron-c
Addicted Member
I did not say a small dealer is not a good McIntosh dealer. When I started out in audio at retail we sold a fair amount of McIntosh in a rural town of 20,000 population plus college students. I did say the dealers that display a large selection of the Mc line sell a lot more. Seeing is believing. And yes the large dealers attract more customers because they have display and often back stock for immediate delivery. These dealers are the professional shops that are usually the healthiest in a business sense and they shoulder the burden of a larger inventory.
Obtainable industry margins on video are in the low 20% range and audio is maybe 40% if lucky. If this is a rip off there must be a lot of millionaire dealers out there...not!
Audio Video is a very competitive tough business, probably more now than ever. The major companies are operating on a paper thin margins or loosing money. This is why we see so much churn in the market place where established products go away, manufacturers enter and leave product categories and after sale service is so poor. We hope McIntosh dealers offer the best possible experience leading to your enjoying music reproduction at home.
Little dealers that run a full service business for their customers end up being big dealers some day. They all start out as one man shops. If a small dealer does not take trade ins, have in store service, stock display units then why would one shop there? I guess the discount is the only thing this dealer can offer as they are not committing to be there for the customer in the long run. It is interesting to see how customers gravitate to the full service dealers and end up happy.
Satisfaction, not price is the issue.
Ron-C
Obtainable industry margins on video are in the low 20% range and audio is maybe 40% if lucky. If this is a rip off there must be a lot of millionaire dealers out there...not!
Audio Video is a very competitive tough business, probably more now than ever. The major companies are operating on a paper thin margins or loosing money. This is why we see so much churn in the market place where established products go away, manufacturers enter and leave product categories and after sale service is so poor. We hope McIntosh dealers offer the best possible experience leading to your enjoying music reproduction at home.
Little dealers that run a full service business for their customers end up being big dealers some day. They all start out as one man shops. If a small dealer does not take trade ins, have in store service, stock display units then why would one shop there? I guess the discount is the only thing this dealer can offer as they are not committing to be there for the customer in the long run. It is interesting to see how customers gravitate to the full service dealers and end up happy.
Satisfaction, not price is the issue.
Ron-C
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