Do we need more power, captain?

justinis

justinis

Active Member
I am searching for a better system: one with an amazing, detailed soundstage that gives you that feeling of being in the room.

My current setup is a 20 WPC custom tube amp with Klipsch RF-3 speakers. It is underwhelming. I think the weakest link is the speakers.

Everything I've read says that for a 20WPC amp, I need high sensitivity, like around 95 dB. I live in a small apartment so I do not need high volume levels. However I have also read that for truly great sound, you need a large amount of power overhead.

Even if I find great, high efficiency speakers, am I kidding myself thinking I can achieve immersive sound without more power to effortlessly drive them? I think I can mod my amp to eek out 25WPC, but no more.
 
Register to hide this ad
I can get immersive sound with a few watts and average sensitivity speakers, just can't use them at the dance club.

Try better speakers.
 
justinis said:
I am searching for a better system: one with an amazing, detailed soundstage that gives you that feeling of being in the room.

My current setup is a 20 WPC custom tube amp with Klipsch RF-3 speakers. It is underwhelming. I think the weakest link is the speakers.

Everything I've read says that for a 20WPC amp, I need high sensitivity, like around 95 dB. I live in a small apartment so I do not need high volume levels. However I have also read that for truly great sound, you need a large amount of power overhead.

Even if I find great, high efficiency speakers, am I kidding myself thinking I can achieve immersive sound without more power to effortlessly drive them? I think I can mod my amp to eek out 25WPC, but no more.
Click to expand...


You may have been missing a lot of the context in your reading, or relevant context may have been missing; that's not unusual.

A key factor you've left out is your listening level. If you are capped fairly low due to apartment living, you are not likely to need a very big amp having speakers with above average sensitivity (and 98dB is well above average, which is the spec I see for RF-3).

At face value, what you have should be capable of ~104dB peak levels, even considering 3m seating distance.
 
Last edited:
Did a quick look-see on what others have share in the past, and for the most part, many were satisfied with the ability of the SR-3 to do its job with not a lot of power to do so.

Take a peek in the "KLIPSCH Community" (Jan 23/02) wherein this very topic is being discussed, and the efficiency-sensitivity characteristics are examined to a degree.

You run your gear in a small apt, but is there much within the room to dampen the sound? And what gauge of speaker wire are you using?

Some argue that you can never have too much power, which is true... to a point.

That "20wpc" you mention...would that be RMS watts?


Q
 
You do not say what you are using for a source and preamp.

Generally, 20 wpc for an amp should be adequate for high sensitivity speakers like your Klipsch, particularly in a small apartment where the sound level is likely not very high (less than 80 dB SPL average, typically).

Before buying new speakers, I suggest trying another amplifier. You currently have a custom, home-built amp. How do you know it is performing as it should? Swapping out the amp with a commercial amp of known provenance will tell you if there is an issue with the amp.
 
justinis said:
Everything I've read says that for a 20WPC amp, I need high sensitivity, like around 95 dB. I live in a small apartment so I do not need high volume levels.
Click to expand...
I disagree, but maybe I don't listen as loud as you.
Some people will always equate more power with better, but I haven't really found any reliable correlation between power and quality. I think Nelson Pass says something like "if the first watt is no good, what the point of another 99 of 'em?"
 
Nothing to add other then that amp looks pretty sweet I'm assuming that's a keeper and the Klipsh not so much
 
whoaru99 said:
You may have been missing a lot of the context in your reading, or relevant context may have been missing; that's not unusual.

A key factor you've left out is your listening level. If you are capped fairly low due to apartment living, you are not likely to need a very big amp having speakers with above average sensitivity (and 98dB is well above average, which is the spec I see for RF-3).

At face value, what you have should be capable of ~104dB peak levels, even considering 3m seating distance.
Click to expand...

My listening level is pretty low. I almost never have my amp turned up above halfway. My ears are also very sensitive to low frequencies and I don't like a lot of low end. I'm not very interested in a subwoofer.
 
Quadman2 said:
Did a quick look-see on what others have share in the past, and for the most part, many were satisfied with the ability of the SR-3 to do its job with not a lot of power to do so.

Take a peek in the "KLIPSCH Community" (Jan 23/02) wherein this very topic is being discussed, and the efficiency-sensitivity characteristics are examined to a degree.

You run your gear in a small apt, but is there much within the room to dampen the sound? And what gauge of speaker wire are you using?

Some argue that you can never have too much power, which is true... to a point.

That "20wpc" you mention...would that be RMS watts?


Q
Click to expand...

There is a sofa in the room, and a rug. I can definitely add dampening. Speaker wire is 12 AWG. Yes, 20 watts rms per channel. Actually 19.22W to be precise.
 
RTally said:
You do not say what you are using for a source and preamp.

Generally, 20 wpc for an amp should be adequate for high sensitivity speakers like your Klipsch, particularly in a small apartment where the sound level is likely not very high (less than 80 dB SPL average, typically).

Before buying new speakers, I suggest trying another amplifier. You currently have a custom, home-built amp. How do you know it is performing as it should? Swapping out the amp with a commercial amp of known provenance will tell you if there is an issue with the amp.
Click to expand...
whoaru99 said:
Indeed a good point. While I'd not expect that amp would take a ton of signal to drive, with a report of lackluster performance it's a consideration that should not be discounted.
Click to expand...

I use this preamp for vinyl and a JDS lab OL DAC for streaming.
 
rothwellaudio said:
I disagree, but maybe I don't listen as loud as you.
Some people will always equate more power with better, but I haven't really found any reliable correlation between power and quality. I think Nelson Pass says something like "if the first watt is no good, what the point of another 99 of 'em?"
Click to expand...

I don't listen very loud. What do you think is the minimum speaker sensitivity for a 20WPC amplifier?
 
justinis said:
I am searching for a better system: one with an amazing, detailed soundstage that gives you that feeling of being in the room.

My current setup is a 20 WPC custom tube amp with Klipsch RF-3 speakers. It is underwhelming. I think the weakest link is the speakers.

Everything I've read says that for a 20WPC amp, I need high sensitivity, like around 95 dB. I live in a small apartment so I do not need high volume levels. However I have also read that for truly great sound, you need a large amount of power overhead.

Even if I find great, high efficiency speakers, am I kidding myself thinking I can achieve immersive sound without more power to effortlessly drive them? I think I can mod my amp to eek out 25WPC, but no more.
Click to expand...

I rarely blame electronics for unsatisfactory results (assumed operating properly) but this being a custom made model based on older components creates a lot of unknowns. The first thing I would do is have the unit bench tested to verify what exactly it's doing. Based on your statements I seriously doubt 20-25 wpc is inadequate in your situation.
 
I use a 30 wpc tube receiver with a pair of 90 dB towers at a distance of ~ 13' and have all the SPL I could ever want.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom