Does a table with no anti-skate = record damage?

jeeves

jeeves

Active Member
I have a nice Pioneer PL-41 turntable with the original cartridge and a new needle. It does not have any anti-skate mechanism (I guess it's pre-anti-skate), but it runs well and sounds good - no problems.

My question is, am I damaging my records or causing undue wear and tear by playing them on a table without anti-skate?

If so, is there any way that I can compensate for it?
 
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Damage from not having an antiskate is unlikely and isn't worth worrying about.

If you do wish to add an antiskate to the PL41 tonearm it's best done by adding a hanging weight style. You can find a picture of such that I added to my Thorens with Pioneer tonearm in one of my postings in the "What turntables do you have" thread on this forum (it is a seperate arm but quite similar to that on the PL41). I got the parts off a dead Kenwood table and used a 1/16 ounce weight and 2-lb. test nylon line.

I will say that the tonearm worked fine without the antiskate but having a good antiskate does result in a slight reduction in inner-groove distortion.

So, basically, having an antiskate is a good thing but you won't really miss one on an otherwise well designed arm such as that on the PL-41.
 
I need to add that a delicate stylus assembly will eventually acquire a bend in the direction of the finger-lift, if no anti-skate is used. At the very least, this will ruin alignment on all but round styli.

Seth
Forever Analog
 
danj said:
If you do wish to add an antiskate to the PL41 tonearm it's best done by adding a hanging weight style. You can find a picture of such that I added to my Thorens with Pioneer tonearm in one of my postings in the "What turntables do you have" thread on this forum (it is a seperate arm but quite similar to that on the PL41). I got the parts off a dead Kenwood table and used a 1/16 ounce weight and 2-lb. test nylon line.
Click to expand...

Can you post a link to the photos. I can't seem to find them.
 
In all turntables with pivoted arms, the lumped lateral non-compliance generated by arm mass, bearing friction and lead-wire stiffness generates an equivalent anti-skate force. It is not calibrated, but it is better than no anti-skate force at all. The AR-XA, for example, relies on this.

Fred Longworth
 
Fred Longworth said:
In all turntables with pivoted arms, the lumped lateral non-compliance generated by arm mass, bearing friction and lead-wire stiffness generates an equivalent anti-skate force. It is not calibrated, but it is better than no anti-skate force at all. The AR-XA, for example, relies on this.

Fred Longworth
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Are there any tricks to adjust this ad hoc anti-skate if necessary.
 
Some people reroute the signal wires slightly, maybe make a slight, gentle loop, to help create a bit of "hang back" force. But, you have to do this experimentally. Set the stylus force to zero and then play with the wires. Be VERY careful not to break the needle.

Fred Longworth
 
Fred Longworth said:
Some people reroute the signal wires slightly, maybe make a slight, gentle loop, to help create a bit of "hang back" force. But, you have to do this experimentally. Set the stylus force to zero and then play with the wires. Be VERY careful not to break the needle.

Fred Longworth
Click to expand...

Loop them away from the center of the record or toward it?
 
Lack of antiskating won't do anything to the angle of the cantilever. If arm friction is very high (which would act sort of like antiskating force) the cantilever may be pulled toward the spindle, and after a while the cantilever might take a set. (I had this problem with a Sonus Blue cartridge and the first NAD high output moving coil, both of which were very highly compliant. I probably shouldn't have used the suggested amount of antiskate, because it can't be good to misalign the cantilever that much (Formula IV and SME series III, by the way, if you are thinking that friction was the problem)),
AR suggested simply increasing tracking force by a quarter of a gram to urge the stylus back to the bottom of the groove. A bit extra tracking force is a good idea anyway unless you are tracking at the top of the recommended range, so I'd do that and not worry about it.
 
I think anti-skating is a gimmick. I don't use it even on turntables even if they have it. I've hooked my turntables up to oscilliscopes, and adjusted the anti-skate so that both channels output the same, only to find that the differences between records swamped my efforts.
 
The rubber suspension very well may take a 'set'. BUT- I have seen instances where the tube actually bends from the constant force put upon it. The Shure V15 III, with its non-tempered, aluminum, thin-wall tube does exactly this when not played with properly-adjusted anti-skate.

Seth
Forever Analog
 
jeeves said:
Can you post a link to the photos. I can't seem to find them.
Click to expand...

Looks like the photo has been archived as it was posted a couple years ago. Here is a detail from the Thorens. An antiskate has been added and it works quite well. The cartridge is a Pickering XSV-3000.
 
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NoTransistors said:
I need to add that a delicate stylus assembly will eventually acquire a bend in the direction of the finger-lift, if no anti-skate is used. At the very least, this will ruin alignment on all but round styli.

Seth
Forever Analog
Click to expand...

In 40 years I've seen many bent cantilevers but have never one caused by a lack of antiskate unless there is excessive bearing friction or other abnormal conditions or misalignments or when the tonearm was dropped or otherwise mishandled. None of those situations have anything to do with antiskate or lack thereof.:thmbsp: Maybe I was lucky but my Shure V15III never developed a bend and it was used for a long time on an AR XA..
 
NO WAY!

The AR-XA, XB, and 77XB had no anti-skating except for the tonearm wire coming out of the back of the arm. I ran a SHURE V15 III on my XB tracking at 1 gram for 15 years and my records sound just fine on my LINN. Also note that many of the GREAT tone arms did not have a dedicated anti-skating device. VPI JMW arms (there is an anti-skating device now available for these arms), AR, GRACE 707, lot's of em' out there still!

A tad increes in tracking force will cure any skating problems per AR and VPI.
 
Jeeves Wrote:
"Are there any tricks to adjust this ad hoc anti-skate if necessary."
Dropping the table level slightly in the "4:30" position and letting gravity counter skate is a very old and very rudimentary trick.
 
Mopic5 said:
Jeeves Wrote:
"Are there any tricks to adjust this ad hoc anti-skate if necessary."
Dropping the table level slightly in the "4:30" position and letting gravity counter skate is a very old and very rudimentary trick.
Click to expand...
Sometimes the least elegant solution is the best. I try have to try it.
 
Adding an antiskate is easy. This is my Thorens with add-on Pioneer seperate arm that is similar to the one from the PL-41. I took the parts from a dead Kenwood table and had the whole thing finished in about an hour, which included about 45 minutes for the epoxy to set. The weight is a 1/16 ounce lead weight but you can order a replacement weight for a Pro-Ject 1 table from several sights on the web for about $10 plus shipping. It won't work better than the lead weight but it might look better.:yes:
 
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I just crimped on a small fishing weight to my Fidelity Research FR-54 anti-skate line. Not very spiffy looking, but it works fine.
 
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