Does GM ever have an original styling idea.

Beatnik said:
Who did they take the Camaro from ? The Mustang looked nothing similar, the similar Cuda came after. The 70.5-81 was definitely different.
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The Camaro was a ground-up original style, (which is why it didn`t debut until MY `67), the Mustang was a Falcon derivative, the original `Cuda was a reworked Valiant....
 
Beatnik said:
I don't get why people want a stick ? Been there, done that, at almost 60 yrs my bones and joints would not enjoy it.
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I look at it like selecting different tools for different jobs. I much prefer an automatic in my full size Silverado pickup, and my Buick Park Ave. I had a full size pickup with manual for awhile and it became too much work (especially driving in traffic) OTOH, there's other cars that I prefer a manual. My Miata for example. Yes you can get them with an automatic but I'd prefer not to. More fun to shift through gears on curvy roads.

Of course, if your body is complaining about using a manual, then an automatic obvoiously makes sense. I'm lucky that at 68, so far I've not had that problem. ( Though getting in and out of the Miata isn't as easy for me as it was 30 years ago !!)
 
Bill S said:
The newer automatics on some makes shift smoothly and almost imperceptibly. Some even have a sport mode with paddle shifters if you prefer that for tracking.
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It`s pretty amazing what they`re building these days....like the ZL-1 Camaro, with a TEN-speed auto trans (!). Those clutch packs must be pretty damn small, makes me wonder how long those trannies are gonna last behind a boosted 700 HP motor....
 
Beatnik said:
Unless I'm racing every time I drive personally don't feel the need. I've had four vehicles with manual, but now I went out of my way to find an auto (gave up 25hp). My knees hurt after a couple of hours with an auto.
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I actually hear you on that. The thing is, in my FRS I WAS racing, sort of. I had a 150 mile round trip to louisville as a commute, over half over well maintained super fun twisties with no traffic - and no cops. But I have done that for 190k miles in that car and I'm done with that kind of driving. I was just talking with my wife a couple of weeks ago about being fine with automatics from here on out, though. I only drive the FRS to church on sunday (dead serious) to keep the seals pliable and plan on selling it soon.

That said, it is kinda fun to drive to church. But like I said, I've had my fill of that. After the factory tires wore out, I only used Bridgestone Potenza's and Michelin SS's, which is what I settled on for the last five sets of tires. When they discontinued them, I had them mount the Michelin Sport 4S's.

Basically, it's like riding in a slot car. :)

But like I said, I'm really over it. When I bought it I needed something that would hold a bass and small amp. I don't need that any more so if I get the sports car bug in the future, it will be a convertible. Maybe a slingshot...
 
A few observations from reading through, the most common was mentioned we keep talking about 50-plus year old designs. Why stop there and we an compare the pre-war cars that really looked similar.
While I am no fan of Chrysler cars, their tall door/short glass look first debuted on the Magnum I think, is the biggest styling change in my lifetime. Nearly every car now sports the “chopped roof” look, especially the SUVs that nearly everyone drives.
The Corvette is where GM stretches its legs design-wise. There’s nothing else close mass produced in the US market that is as bold and adventurous.
The market has changed so much over the years, especially the youth market that sees cars as a necessary evil. While we lusted after cars growing up and still have an appreciation for some, most of what I see from the younger generation is the opposite. Some don’t even want to get driver’s licenses.
 
grillebilly said:
A few observations from reading through, the most common was mentioned we keep talking about 50-plus year old designs. Why stop there and we an compare the pre-war cars that really looked similar.
While I am no fan of Chrysler cars, their tall door/short glass look first debuted on the Magnum I think, is the biggest styling change in my lifetime. Nearly every car now sports the “chopped roof” look, especially the SUVs that nearly everyone drives.
The Corvette is where GM stretches its legs design-wise. There’s nothing else close mass produced in the US market that is as bold and adventurous.
The market has changed so much over the years, especially the youth market that sees cars as a necessary evil. While we lusted after cars growing up and still have an appreciation for some, most of what I see from the younger generation is the opposite. Some don’t even want to get driver’s licenses.
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You really touched a nerve on that last line. I got my driver's license on my 16th birthday. I was chompin' at the bit. But now my grandchildren are in no hurry. I really don't understand it. I get the feeling the last couple of generations simply don't appreciate freedom as much as my, and previous generations did. I wonder if they give any credibility to the phrase I live by: Give me liberty, or give me death.

And don't get me started on the freedom afforded by a motorcycle. :)
 
sanford12 said:
They stole Jeeps grill for the Hummer. When Jeep lost their case against GM I was dumbfounded. Now they stole the new Broncos grill for the electric Hummer. They've taken so many styling cues from Ford pickup trucks sometimes it's hard to tell them apart. They even stole the hood scoop from Toyota's big pickup. All car companies are guilty of it but GM's transgressions seem particularly egregious.
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Vertical headlamps (63 Pontiac)... rubber bumper(68 GTO)... various Corvettes... 58, 59 Impala...
 
Beatnik said:
I don't get why people want a stick ? Been there, done that, at almost 60 yrs my bones and joints would not enjoy it.

Unless I'm racing every time I drive personally don't feel the need. I've had four vehicles with manual, but now I went out of my way to find an auto (gave up 25hp). My knees hurt after a couple of hours with an auto.
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I've been looking at BMW Z3's lately. I wouldn't consider an auto in it even with my bad left knee. Test drove a manual it was like coming home and with the seating position the knee wasn't a big part of clutching. Passed on a very nice auto version. The wife and I drove sticks for the first 15 years of marriage.

Depends on the racing. Drag racing you'll get eaten up by an auto. They shift at the right time every time and they shift faster than a human. The Mustang GT auto is faster than the manual version as an example.

Road racing yeah I'd rather have a manual but the day is coming when an auto will rule either that or electric will take over and gas will be all vintage style racing. The Alfa Giulia had an 8 speed auto. When I took it on the Tail of the Dragon once it knew what I was doing it wouldn't shift to the higher gears. It adapted to what you were doing. Took around a mile to see you weren't hammering the corners anymore. Pretty amazing I thought.
 
nolasally said:
The power an air cooled motor made was fine. All they needed to do was shed weight instead to get similar results.
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"good enough" is rarely good enough for sales purposes. If the competition makes more power, its going to get sales. The other big part of losing the air cooling was emissions compliance.

As for shedding weight, that gets very difficult if you want something that complies with safety standards. The structure required is considerably more than it was when the 911 came out way back in 1963.

I don't really go for simple is always better philosophy. Neither did the car consuming public. If they did the Model T would still be in production.
 
To get back to the OP, "original" styling means "risky". Big companies have a lot to lose when they take risks. That's why they are relatively slow to change. Smaller or upstart companies have a lot less to lose and a lot more to gain by taking risks. I also consider GM to be more of a marketing company than a car company, the exception being the Corvette.
 
sanford12 said:
I've been looking at BMW Z3's lately. I wouldn't consider an auto in it even with my bad left knee. Test drove a manual it was like coming home and with the seating position the knee wasn't a big part of clutching. Passed on a very nice auto version. The wife and I drove sticks for the first 15 years of marriage.

Depends on the racing. Drag racing you'll get eaten up by an auto. They shift at the right time every time and they shift faster than a human. The Mustang GT auto is faster than the manual version as an example.

Road racing yeah I'd rather have a manual but the day is coming when an auto will rule either that or electric will take over and gas will be all vintage style racing. The Alfa Giulia had an 8 speed auto. When I took it on the Tail of the Dragon once it knew what I was doing it wouldn't shift to the higher gears. It adapted to what you were doing. Took around a mile to see you weren't hammering the corners anymore. Pretty amazing I thought.
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I'll take an auto any time the going gets rough... off road, crawling over terrain, bumper to bumper, very slippery conditions... a torque converter is god sent for every aspect of that kind of driving, including delicate balancing of power to wheels playing brakes against engine. But... for twisting mountain roads, the control over engine rpm and power curve with deceleration as a moment to moment feature is what makes driving fun with a stick, especially with a high winding engine.
 
Starting to sound like "Get off my lawn." I don't judge new generations because I've seen enough of older generations doing it and they are never ever right. Just because they don't hold your values doesn't mean they're worse. Had enough of that growing up long haired in the late 60's early 70's

Lets get back to the original intent of the thread
 
sanford12 said:
Starting to sound like "Get off my lawn." I don't judge new generations because I've seen enough of older generations doing it and they are never ever right. Just because they don't hold your values doesn't mean they're worse. Had enough of that growing up long haired in the late 60's early 70's

Lets get back to the original intent of the thread
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Well... lawns ought to be respected. But... returning... Cadillac bumper bullets, stolen, perhaps, from Howard Hughes... for those that know. How about 'hide the gas cap location'... a problem gas pump attendants had to master, often with the help of the vehicle owner... GM was a contributor to that. Then there was the hide-away headlamps and the disappearing windshield wipers and their seriously articulated mechanisms, all GM contributions... not ice and snow friendly.
 
My favorite past vehicle was my 71 Z28 with an M22. I was in my mid 20s and it was great.

I also understand the manual for road course racing, auto trans cannot see the road or predict whats coming next. I recently bought a 10 Camaro, I don't see me being anywhere a stick would be an advantage unless I schedule track time somewhere, no road courses here.

I guess I've owned some real GM crap, add a 68 RS/SS and a 67 C10.

:)
 
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