Does your Marantz 6100 run slow?

vodsonic

vodsonic

Dental Floss Tycoon
Does your Marantz 6100 turn at a solid 33-1/3 RPM, or does it run about 2.5% slow? Also, is your spindle part of the platter assembly, so it lifts out with the platter, or does your platter lift off of the spindle?

I notice that this turntable has a lot of fans on this board, but if you search AK and the wider interwebz, there are a whole lot of reports of 6100 inexplicably running about 2% slow. The 6100 uses a synchronous motor, and has no electronic speed adjustment. In another thread here at AK, one poster claimed that

Joey1127 said:
From my experience, the 6100 is going to run a tad on the slow side as you cannot get a factory belt for it any longer.... I have never meet a 6100 that was running at the correct speed. They always seem to go slow.
Click to expand...

I'm curious to know if others here have installed new belts on their 6100 and gotten them to run the proper speed. Various sellers online recommend an FBM-25 or FRX-25 belt (I think they're two names for the same belt) for this turntable.

I'm also wondering if there is more than one version of this turntable, and if it's one version in particular that has speed problems. On mine the spindle is built into the platter, and when you remove the platter, the spindle and a nylon gear come out with it. However, in the presumably European or British manual available on VE, the spindle is depicted as staying on the base, with just the platter lifting off leaving an empty hole in the middle.

I bought a 6100 on CL, cleaned it up, lubricated the platter bearing, replaced the faulty audio cable, and replaced the belt with an FBM-25, but my Robins strobe disc says it's running slow by about 2.5%. I then carefully cleaned the belt, rotor, and platter with isopropyl alcohol; cleaned the motor with contact cleaner, and disassembled it and lubricated the bearings. But the turntable still runs slow. Some people online have claimed that one or more of the steps I took fixed their speed problem - others have, like me, found no solution at all.
 
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Mine had the issue, needed new belt and the motor pulley adjusted. Keeps speed just fine and constant. At either speed. It's present owner is having no trouble at all and is happy.
 
I've had two Marantz 6100's. The first cost $1 at a yard sale (vindictive ex-wife) and the other was a freebie, also from a yard sale. Both ran slow/off speed. There's practically nothing that can be done to correct the problem, I certainly tried. As far as I'm concerned it's an attractive looking turntable but under the skin its simple and cheap construction does not lend itself to accuracy and high performance.

Maybe I'm just fussy, but I'm not going to waste time on any turntable that's not DEAD NUTS ACCURATE.
 
cactuscowboy,

You and I have too much in common. And we both like the same turntables. Early next month, I will be running a Technics SP-15 motor as my main turntable motor unit. 78 playback, here we come.
 
As others have said, there is a tendency for these to run off-speed. I've had two, one that ran slow and one that ran fast. Getting a good quality belt like PRB and playing with the spindle height may do the trick for you.

As for the platter and spindle, they are indeed separate. Quite often the spindle and platter get stuck together over the years and need some persuasion to part company. If I had to guess, I'd say that the small set screw that holds the spindle in the bearing is missing. That would allow the spindle to come out with the platter. It would also allow the lubrication to exit the bearing.

John
 
Just wondering

cactuscowboy said:
I've had two Marantz 6100's. The first cost $1 at a yard sale (vindictive ex-wife) and the other was a freebie, also from a yard sale. Both ran slow/off speed. There's practically nothing that can be done to correct the problem, I certainly tried. As far as I'm concerned it's an attractive looking turntable but under the skin its simple and cheap construction does not lend itself to accuracy and high performance.

Maybe I'm just fussy, but I'm not going to waste time on any turntable that's not DEAD NUTS ACCURATE.
Click to expand...

Just wondering...there are no factory belts BUT there are manufacturers out there that make drive belts - you just have to know the absolute correct size in MM

I needed one for an old 8mm/super 8mm projector. No way to get an original belt but i did find I could use a rubber ring of the right size..

This may be TOO obvious but I found THIS

But say your problem is that a standard belt is not tight enough (age?) and you need one slightly smaller

Determine the size you need (I believe its 25" or 635mm for a 6100)

Find a belt similar but say 3 or 4 mm shorter...

Just a thought...
 
arcorob said:
Just wondering...there are no factory belts BUT there are manufacturers out there that make drive belts - you just have to know the absolute correct size in MM

I needed one for an old 8mm/super 8mm projector. No way to get an original belt but i did find I could use a rubber ring of the right size..

This may be TOO obvious but I found THIS

But say your problem is that a standard belt is not tight enough (age?) and you need one slightly smaller

Determine the size you need (I believe its 25" or 635mm for a 6100)

Find a belt similar but say 3 or 4 mm shorter...

Just a thought...
Click to expand...

Good point about the belts and how slight variations affect speed. I think the bigger problem with the Marantz 6100 (and other turntables of this design, e.g. Rega, Project, MMF) is that there is no way to fine tune speed as it's totally dependant on pulley diameters and belt dimensions/quality.

So it might be possible to get this type of turntable 'close enough', say plus or minus 0.5% of correct speed, but it'll still be off speed. Maybe OK for casual non-critical use, but unacceptable for doing transfer work and critical listening.

The one Marantz 6100 I had was refurbished, fitted with a new cartridge and donated to a fundraiser for a friend battling cancer. The other has been sitting in my shop for a year collecting dust. I really need to clean it up and sell it cheap to someone who'd appreciate it.
 
Strange idea

A strange idea just popped up...there is a wealth of talent on these boards. Surely, someone could devise a speed control that would be easy to install on this. Call it a model 6100B ...LOL

If the voltage to the motor were upped just a tad via a control...Maybe I am thinking DC motors ..This one is AC Sync..

Was just a thought...think of how many 6100 owners would be happy of they could have a small speed nob that would allow 2% +-

I am totally out of my realm here..feel free to ignore this chatter...:boring:
 
arcorob said:
A strange idea just popped up...there is a wealth of talent on these boards. Surely, someone could devise a speed control that would be easy to install on this. Call it a model 6100B ...LOL

If the voltage to the motor were upped just a tad via a control...Maybe I am thinking DC motors ..This one is AC Sync..

Was just a thought...think of how many 6100 owners would be happy of they could have a small speed nob that would allow 2% +-

I am totally out of my realm here..feel free to ignore this chatter...:boring:
Click to expand...

Anything is possible.

I look at it this way though...

I have several high end quartz-locked direct drive turntables that I bought for twenty bucks or less from yard sales. The accuracy and performance they offer makes the Marantz 6100 and similar belt drives look like crude toys in comparison. So why even bother trying to modify the 6100? I've already got plenty of other projects going on that are a far better use of my limited time.

As KrisM suggests, selling the 6100 and buying a Marantz DD model is a viable option if one wants better performance and the Marantz styling/aesthetics.
 
The 6200 is another belt drive, but it has speed adjustment. Maybe I should have said sell the 6100 and buy a 6300. I'm guessing the 6100 and 6200 sell for similar prices, but the 6300 sells for a bit more.
Nothing against this series of tables, but I don't think they are worth the effort of trying to add speed control. But arcorob was just thinking out loud, that's cool. If a speed control was being discussed for old AR tables I would be saying, "somebody get on that!".:D We all have our preferences.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
Mine had the issue, needed new belt and the motor pulley adjusted. Keeps speed just fine and constant.
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I hadn't thought to adjust the pulley. The upper, narrower, 33-1/3 RPM portion of the pulley bulges in the middle, but the belt tends to rise to the top of the pulley. By raising the pulley on the motor shaft, I was able to get the belt to ride in the middle, more evenly straddling the bulge. But it didn't affect the speed at all - it's still at about 32.5 RPM.

cactuscowboy said:
So it might be possible to get this type of turntable 'close enough', say plus or minus 0.5% of correct speed, but it'll still be off speed. Maybe OK for casual non-critical use, but unacceptable for doing transfer work and critical listening.
Click to expand...

That's what I was afraid of. I don't claim to have anything as glamorous as 100% perfect pitch - my ears are probably just obsessive-compulsive and anal-retentive - but pitch and speed issues will drive me nuts.

I think I'll probably move the 6100 along and look for something like a Thorens TD-145 to fill the vacant spot on my desk. I need a daily driver for thrift-store records - I'm looking for something simpler and less plasticky than my Technics SL-QD33, and as low-maintenance as possible once I get it set up.

Or, perhaps the SL-QD33 just needs a tuneup and a new cart. It sounds a bit thin and harsh at the moment.

Thanks to all for the suggestions and information.
 
Interesting

KrisM said:
The 6200 is another belt drive, but it has speed adjustment. Maybe I should have said sell the 6100 and buy a 6300. I'm guessing the 6100 and 6200 sell for similar prices, but the 6300 sells for a bit more.
Nothing against this series of tables, but I don't think they are worth the effort of trying to add speed control. But arcorob was just thinking out loud, that's cool. If a speed control was being discussed for old AR tables I would be saying, "somebody get on that!".:D We all have our preferences.
Click to expand...

Interesting too..I love my Marantz 6350 which does have a DC direct motor and DOES have speed control...but have to tell you it needs it. Almost every record I put on the table, I have to very delicately fine tune the speeds as the strobe will walk (albeit very slightly) one way or the other. Maybe its a Marantz thing...lol
 
arcorob said:
Interesting too..I love my Marantz 6350 which does have a DC direct motor and DOES have speed control...but have to tell you it needs it. Almost every record I put on the table, I have to very delicately fine tune the speeds as the strobe will walk (albeit very slightly) one way or the other. Maybe its a Marantz thing...lol
Click to expand...

arcorob:

I picked up a Marantz 6170 (also a Direct Drive servo control) at a yard sale for cheap. I cannibilized it and used the motor & platter for a DIY project. You might find this interesting:

http://www.recordcollectorsguild.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=60816
 
awesome info here regarding the Marantz 6100 TT. I have the re-badged 6100, the HH Scott PS-17a and I'm at a lost regarding the speed issue. I've taken the thing apart, cleaned everything but the speed issue remains.

I was thinking though, perhaps, the size of the motor spindle could somehow be enlarged or replaced with one with a slightly larger diameter. perhaps adding some acrylic to enlarge the spindle/belt contact area to speed things up. I dont know, just putting forth ideas there.

cheers gents,
roger
 
I've been trying to fix my 6100 for awhile now. So far spraying deoxit in the motor assembly and lubing the spindle have helped drastically, but haven't completely solved the problem. I got a new belt awhile back, but now i'm not so sure it was the right size. Next up I'm going to try replacing the capacitor inside.
 
May have stumbled on an easy fix?

Had one of these 6100's for a couple years now and never used it because it
sounded slow. Got it out today and tinkered with it, oiled the bearings and
tried boiling the belt. Still ran slow so I wrapped the motor spindle with a single
piece of painters tape just for kicks and it sounded a little fast. Took that off and
painted the spindle with a single THIN coat of pink fingernail polish. I just
rotated the spindle while holding the brush against the spindle.
It's not a thick coat at all as I can still see some of the brass ridges.
I have no strobe to verify but it sounds good to my ears. Maybe someone
else can pull one out of storage and give it shot?
 
I picked up a really nice 6110 off CL.
I first replaced the belt. It's 25" - Cost $6 or $7. held both up together using pens and the old belt was about 2 inches stretched longer and harder rubber due to age.
After taking the bottom of the TT off, I was able to get at both the motor and the set screw locking in the spindle no problem.

I cleaned both upper and lower motor bearings with a cotton swap and alcohol. then filled them in with white lithium grease.
Thoroghly cleaned the sintered bearing below the spindle and re-greased.

Speed came UP to the same ~2% slow.

I didn't want to do this until the last resort, (but is fully reversable so what the heck)
I put on one coat of Orange fingernail polish (all red paint takes the longest to dry) on the motor spindle and it picked the speed right up.

Sounds "right" to me now, speed is dead on. :music:
 
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