Dual 1219 motor issues

[kirb20]

so I have a relatively minty Dual 1219 that is our primary tt and gets regular use. Recently it started to make an audible noise after playing for about 45 min to an hour. No noise on start up, only after playing for some time. Kind of a rumble/grindy thing? So I took it in to be serviced and this is what the shop is saying:

"On the Dual front, not great news. There is an instability in the motor that goes beyond the thorough cleaning and lubrication it has received. Our best assessment is that the steel plates that are part of the motor core have become delaminated. No amount of case tightening can address the looseness that allows the audible vibrations. This is our first encounter with this kind of motor failure in our decades of Dual experience. It's hard to say with certainty, but it may be possible to rebuild. If that doesn't do it, there remains the possibility of replacing it with another vintage Dual motor. The 1219 shares its heavy-duty motor with just a few other premium models but there may be suitable donors findable.

None of those possibilities keeps it cheap and cheerful though. I think we would need to approve something in the 240-320 range to attempt the motor rebuild. I can look into the possibility of a substitute if you like, but it's not likely to cost less all told.

It remains usable, but the motor will continue to vibrate audibly at varying levels of volume. If you'd like to take it home as is, only the minimum charge of $72 applies."

Anyone have any thoughts on this? How hard would it be for me to find a replacement motor and do the swap? I can't sink $300 into this tt right now unfortunately but I hate to just walk away from it..... Argh!

 

[stereofisher]

Where are you located? This sounds like a bunch of balcony. Would like to look inside that motor. Replacements run about $50 on Eprey. Hard to believe that motor is bad. I do have 1229 and or a 1219 with a bad arm I may be parting out.

Eric

 

[kirb20]

Where are you located? This sounds like a bunch of balcony. Would like to look inside that motor. Replacements run about $50 on Eprey. Hard to believe that motor is bad. I do have 1229 and or a 1219 with a bad arm I may be parting out.

Eric

I'm up in Canada, in Toronto.

 

[FluxT]

I picked up a 1219 last year that made a similar disconcerting noise. It went away after a good lubrication, but it's not dead silent. If it doesn't go away with lubrication and new bushings, then I'd swap in a new motor. They pop up regularly for about $50 or so, and aren't terribly difficult to remove or install.

 

[stereofisher]

Where are you located? This sounds like a bunch of balcony. Would like to look inside that motor. Replacements run about $50 on Eprey. Hard to believe that motor is bad. I do have 1229 and or a 1219 with a bad arm I may be parting out.

Eric

PS from that description I think I know what’s wrong. Easy fix.

ET

 

[kirb20]

PS from that description I think I know what’s wrong. Easy fix.

ET

what do you think is wrong?

 

[LF240]

Assuming the noise is not coming from the idler wheel or it's support (which is much more common and quite often blamed on the motor) -

The fact that whoever is servicing this motor has tried "tightening" the vibrations out of it leads me to believe that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of how it is designed to operate. The only vibrations I have ever experienced from one of these motors that wasn't due to a lack of oil has been the result of a misalignment of the two internal bushings while reassembling. Was the motor serviced prior to this problem arising?

When reassembling the motor it is important to make sure the shaft isn't being pressed into the lower bearing by stress from the two case bolts. It's easy to make this mistake, I've done it a few times myself. It's also easy to fix this mistake by loosening the two case bolts and giving the motor a few light taps with a small mallet while slowly tightening them. This aids in aligning the two bushings and centering the shaft.

At this point (if I was unable to repair it myself) I would either look for another shop or grab another motor from the auction site. They do come up regularly in the 35.00 to 50.00 range.

 

[nnicola]

“When reassembling the motor it is important to make sure the shaft isn't being pressed into the lower bearing by stress from the two case bolts. It's easy to make this mistake, I've done it a few times myself. It's also easy to fix this mistake by loosening the two case bolts and giving the motor a few light taps with a small mallet while slowly tightening them. This aids in aligning the two bushings and centering the shaft.”

Having worked on a 1219 recently, I think the LF240 might possibly have his finger on the problem, as described above. When I recently took apart the motor in my 1219 to clean and lubricate, I encountered the same problem. Before disassembly, the motor was fairly quiet. After cleaning, lubrication, and reassembly, it started to make a noise. If the reassembled motor casing is not correctly aligned, or if the two bolts holding the assembly together are too tight, the motor will make noise. I had to take the motor apart again, verify that the motor casing was aligned properly, and gently tighten the two bolts holding the casing together. If the two bolts holding the motor together are tightened too much, the motor will make noise.

Even if your motor is bad, you should still be able to get another used motor for no more than $60. Swapping motors is actually pretty easy to do on the 1219. There are numerous videos online that can walk you through the process. Take a look at them and you might not be intimidated by the work involved. The 1219 can be very challenging for a DIY fix, given the complexity of the components that make up its automated system. However, the motor assembly and the idler wheel are pretty straightforward when it comes to a home repair.