Dual Sub Setup Question

Me Tarzan

Me Tarzan

EARTH
Considering updating HT system with a new pair of subs. Receiver has only one Sub Out and I know you can split signal and run 2 powered subs no problem. Question is: What are the pros and cons of installing line level in/out as dedicated left and right subs to go with the front mains? With the subwoofer output unused will the signal be processed differently? I would guess most movies are mixed with the sub in mono so that the signal would just be equal left and right if not using the sub out? And if not mono then would only benefit...?

Receiver is Onkyo TX-SR313 5.1 used 90% movies 10% music
Front mains are Tekton Mini Lores
Polk Center CSi A6
Rears are originally the Onkyo fronts
Subs considering a few options in the $2-400 each range...

Thanks, Ron
 
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The biggest problem I see is that many subs don't have high pass capability built in. So, while you end up with left and right subwoofer extension on the mains, the mains would be still running full range and most main speakers aren't really geared to provide the demands of the normal bass plus the LFE.

And, yeah, if you don't use the LFE/sub output and tell the system "No" to subwoofer, which is what you'd have to do to run them as you ask about, then you run into the concern(s) noted above.
 
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the skipper said:
does your receiver have preamp outputs?
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The only pre-out is the single sub out.

whoaru99 said:
The biggest problem I see is that many subs don't have high pass capability built in. So, while you end up with left and right subwoofer extension on the mains, the mains would be still running full range and most main speakers aren't really geared to provide the demands of the normal bass plus the LFE.

And, yeah, if you don't use the LFE/sub output and tell the system "No" to subwoofer, which is what you'd have to do to run them as you ask about, then you run into the concern(s) noted above.
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Mains running full range is what I want (mains Tekton Mini Lores). They have decent low end but not theater rumble. I have a terrible sub at the moment that does very little below the M-Lores.
 
Me Tarzan said:
Mains running full range is what I want (mains Tekton Mini Lores). They have decent low end but not theater rumble. I have a terrible sub at the moment that does very little below the M-Lores.
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Well, my big Paradigm Studio 100s have good low end too, but I still don't run them full range in my HT system for the reason previously given. But, it's your stuff and it's easy to do what you want as long as the subs have high level/speaker level inputs since your receiver doesn't appear to have front pre outs. But, doing it by speaker level is usually easier anyway and just as good in such cases, IMO.
 
the skipper said:
so, you're going to be running the subs off the speaker outputs?
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Only if it is beneficial. I have never ran dual subs. I will just split the mono sub pre out and run it to the subs UNLESS I learn otherwise that going the line level in would yield better results (stereo subs).

I don't have the subs yet but will be sure to check specs first. Considering from Dayton Sub 1200, Polk 10s, Klipsch 10s, BIC 12s... something in that range.
 
The "technically correct" way is to use the sub/LFE out for a HT setup regardless of the number of connected subs. But, since you have (or will have) two subs it's easy enough to try it both ways and see which you prefer.
 
well, if you split the pre out, what both sub's get will be controlled by the receiver's bass management system. speaker level outs bypass that entirely.

But, only by listening will you be able to determine which you prefer.
 
Looking at the rcvr online shows only sub line out(no front main line outs).. the mini lores show a range starting at 55hz..
You'll have to tell the rcvr fronts are large, and no sub as suggested above. The speakers may sound a bit 'muddy'..

'If' you feel you need two subs, split the line out..

Just my opinion, but one good sub will give you more than you need.. and if its too much the 10 percent of the time you listen to music, you can manually turn it off..
 
I guess the dual subs thing is an OCD/symmetry thing that has always bothered me. Really not happy with entire HT setup and subs seem a good place to start. In reality the Onkyo amp/processor is probably the weakest link.
 
Me Tarzan said:
The only pre-out is the single sub out.



Mains running full range is what I want (mains Tekton Mini Lores). They have decent low end but not theater rumble. I have a terrible sub at the moment that does very little below the M-Lores.
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This is how I have run my subs with mains that can run down into the 40 Hz range or so. The subs I have used have had speaker level inputs. Some had speaker-level pass through as well.

REL recommends the speaker-level input over the RCAs.

For subs under $500 I'm very happy with the Acoustech PL-200ii (List is $659, but they can be had for $300).

I often turn the sub off using the HT system. We watch a lot of old Hollywood movies (30's and 40's era) and there is often a lot of noise the subs try to reproduce and it sounds terrible. I'm using the above PL-200ii in my HT.

Lots of folks recommend Parts Express subs, but I have no direct experience with them.
 
I'd definitely recommend feeding bot subs from the sub out, then experiment with placement. The sub channel in surround sound is a discrete separate channel, and you will be missing out if you don't use it. How do I know? I had a 5.0 system using my Infinity Kappa 8.1s for left/right front. While they certainly don't lack for bass, adding an inexpensive subwoofer to the system really improved the surround experience.

If your current sub is "terrible" then maybe remove it completely and just use the new one.
 
swechsler said:
I'd definitely recommend feeding bot subs from the sub out, then experiment with placement. The sub channel in surround sound is a discrete separate channel, and you will be missing out if you don't use it. How do I know? I had a 5.0 system using my Infinity Kappa 8.1s for left/right front. While they certainly don't lack for bass, adding an inexpensive subwoofer to the system really improved the surround experience.

If your current sub is "terrible" then maybe remove it completely and just use the new one.
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Thanks, makes perfect sense. Wish (in one hand...) my receiver had stereo sub out but... Experiment I will. Can't seem to get my crappy HT sub to "disappear" like my studio sub seems to do. I guess even if I do go L&R I could leave the current sub in the sub out for trips...
Thanks to al who replied.
 
As opined previously, I too think using the subs off the LFE/sub out is the way to go. That said, if you set the subwoofer option to "No" (or none, whatever) the LFE is not simply discarded. In that case bass management should redirect LFE to the front speakers set to "large" (large meaning they receive full range signal), so they would play LFE in addition to the normal/regular bass. That can be pretty taxing for the speakers.
 
whoaru99 said:
As opined previously, I too think using the subs off the LFE/sub out is the way to go. That said, if you set the subwoofer option to "No" (or none, whatever) the LFE is not simply discarded. In that case bass management should redirect LFE to the front speakers set to "large" (large meaning they receive full range signal), so they would play LFE in addition to the normal/regular bass.
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In theory, this is true. in practice, however, I found the LFE to be inadequate. This may vary by AVR, however. With my Denon AVR3808ci, Infinity Kappa 8.1s set to large/full range, and no subwoofer, music reproduction was perfectly fine. Movie soundtracks, however were sorely lacking until I added the sub.
 
swechsler said:
In theory, this is true. in practice, however, I found the LFE to be inadequate. This may vary by AVR, however. With my Denon AVR3808ci, Infinity Kappa 8.1s set to large/full range, and no subwoofer, music reproduction was perfectly fine. Movie soundtracks, however were sorely lacking until I added the sub.
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Yeah, I have no way to guarantee performance of EVERY AVR ever produced. But, that is the way it is SUPPOSED to work.

And, I thought it was clear mentioning it at least twice, I too recommend using subs for the LFE and lower bass rather than rerouting LFE to mains. Most are not capable.
 
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