dynaco 25s. bulbous bass and polarity

superbass

Member
The point: if you find the bass too much or too flubby, reverse the polarity on the woofer only.

background:
The 25 is an almost perfect speaker (I especially like the USS version - less modern sounding), but with either version -especially seas version, have always disliked the low end, finding it 'bulbous' sounding or flubby and out of balance (too much) with the mids and highs. I suspected the rubber surrounds may be part of this or cabinet design, and thought about trying some foam surrounds or a traditional 2" port, but figured I'd conduct a little experiment first:

first reversed polarity at the amp. Immediate difference, it is not true in my experience that polarity doesn't matter. It's true with guitar speakers as well. Definite difference. Less bulbous, less quantity, different character. Yes it messes with the mids too, but since the stock bass sound is almost a deal breaker for me, I can live with the mids being altered as well. Now I can listen to Rush without getting upset, as before Geddy's bass was almost unbearable.

Then tried keeping correct polarity on amp and just reversed the polarity of the woofer and feel it's a bit nicer balance. So that's where I stayed.


fine point: if after the switch you find there is not enough extension in the bass, make sure there is some space behind the mesh opening. I found that pulling the cabinets insulation down to help cover that opening (the insulation that is packed between the two mesh grills is not changed), can really take away extension and quantity of bass, so to get some back, push towards the back of cab and/or move up the piece of insulation that is directly behind the woofer so there is a 4-5 inch empty space behind the vent. Since reversing the polarity decreases bass significantly, this helps insure there is adequate punch and extension
 
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Mine sound fine the way they came from the factory... Plus, chances are that Dynaco knew what they were doing when they tuned the cabinets and woofers.

If you think they sound better by putting the woofers out of phase, then by all means, do so with your own pair of A25's. It's your stereo – nobody has to like the sound except you.
 
Too much bass on A25's? "If" that ever happened, I'd rather turn the bass down or move them away from the wall versus reversing the polarity and colapsing the sound stage. But, to each their own. I am perfectly content with the way they sound as they came out. YMMV.
 
reverse on both of course......I have no tone controls to adjust out the bass......there is no 'collapsing' of sound stage....... they are not near the wall , and it's not so much the quantity of bass, but the quality that was the problem.......the change is so much more enjoyable with my amp. Of course, to those who don't experience the problem with stock bass, by all means do not change anything. That's why I started by saying, FOR THOSE WHO FEEL...... For those who don't find the bass problematic with their amp need not think twice about it......I've been living with the new setup for a couple days now and feel the honeymoon is over and am still 100% happy with the change. Albums I once could not listen to because of this bulbous bass problem are now being thoroughly enjoyed and I have found no loss of the magic midrange and sweet treble that first attracted me to the 25's.... That's all I can say and just wanted to offer my findings for those who dislike stock a25 bass with their amp/setup.


Just to clarify, I have the United speaker systems bill hecht US made remake of the a25 but the bass problem was even more pronounced on the more common seas versions I have had. I now wish I kept a pair to try this mod on which maybe could have saved them, but in general, the mids on the USS version are so perfect I can't imagine really wanting the seas version which is more of a mid scooped modern sound, but still nice......
 
This is all new to me.
Is there a technical explanation for the dramatic effect you hear after reversing the connections at the amp only?
Putting the mid-woofers out of phase with the tweets would be expected to make a difference, I suppose.
John
 
I'm enjoying FREE Live as I type. There's no way I could be doing that without this mod. Andy's bass was always like a pilsbury dough boy until now. It's perfect. And the mids are right on, Kossoff's 67 Superbass is exactly how it sounds when I stand in front of the real full stack of marshall 67 era....... Not many speakers, and certainly no modern speaker accurately reproduces marshall guitar amp tone IMO......I have no idea technically what is happening with respect to polarity mod........ Again, this thread is really only for those who feel the same way about a25 bass and want to try as a quick and practical soultion. Those that do not have a problem can go on with their lives and not post. I'm not interested in converting opinion. I only wish someone else had posted this years ago, and that's why I mention it.


a AAA battery's + lead causes cone to move in. I verified that the cone is in fact wired 'out' of phase with the mod. FYI, celestions pushed by a marshall amp is also out of phase with each other. A fender and jensen is not. And 90% of my recordings feature old marshall guitar amps. Perhaps that has something to do with it.
 
Well, funny thing is that I just bought a pair of A25's that were actually USA Made A-150's and guess what, they have the exact same SEAS Drivers and these guys sound great, not slow at all in the lower registers (bass) and have wonderful mids and highs.

Dynaco A-25's and even the early A-150's are world class bookshelf speakers that in the right environment are equal to speakers costing well into the thousands in today dollars.

I would bet that in a blind test that many would pick them over many of today's pricey bookself sized speakers.

Jim
 
Off topic, but anyhow:
Jim-
What's the reputation of the Dynaco A-50s? I got 3 (yes, 3- strange) of them in an auction lot last week.
Wondering if it would be worth fixing them up- the woofers (16 ohm) are all good.
John
 


NO. like most companies from the 60's and 70's, they are now not the same. Marshall stopped being marshall in the 70's/early 80's the way every other stereo company stopped being what they were and moved to China. Old marshalls have 2 gain stages that invert and re right the signal, old celestions are marked with reverse polarity, if you wire them up as you should, the final signal is 'out of phase', meaning a + terminal of the battery pushed the cone in. But it's really not the point, just a curious similarity made in jest. The point is that polarity makes a difference and that reverse polarity is part of what makes a marshall sound like it does, and not like a fender, which it is an almost exact clone of.
 
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Off topic, but anyhow:
Jim-
What's the reputation of the Dynaco A-50s? I got 3 (yes, 3- strange) of them in an auction lot last week.
Wondering if it would be worth fixing them up- the woofers (16 ohm) are all good.
John

John:

I have no first hand experience with A-50's but would imagine that they are great sounding as they double up on the bass drivers and have a bigger cabinet...kind of like stacked A-25's!

They use 16ohm bass drivers so the actual output will be 8ohms. I would imagine they would be well worth the effort to restore!

Jim
 
Swapping the polarity will have no effect on the response except right at the crossover point.
 
Cool. I've loved my A-25s as I purchased them. Both sets. Best Jazz speakers I've ever heard (for under $10,000).

I did use the polarity reversal to stop a pair of Klipsch KG-4s from shouting. Seemed to work.

Thanks for the report.
 
Swapping the polarity will have no effect on the response except right at the crossover point.


And bumblebees aren't supposed to fly, but they do. theories are abstractions for people who are too lazy to do experiments and live in reality. Are you saying I don't now enjoy listening to tom sawyer when before I couldn't stand to?
 
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