Ebay & "Mint" & "Near mint" lp's

[audiofred]

Always a let down for me too on the Bay. Possibly through AK and some refernces of sellers from the Bay and the real world quality control of LP's is needed.

Fred

 

[day67]

I almost posted this thread a few weeks ago. Agree wholeheartedly that most "near mint" gradings are made visually by the sellers and not via audio criteria. I have yet had a "near mint" lp sent to me that was near mint! I have an acceptability range probably wider than most but recently received 2 lps that were advertised mint/near mint that were not even vg. I contacted both sellers and gave them the audio findings and firmly but kindly asked for a refund -- which they did. This experience has tempered my activity on epray I will tell you. Wish I had kept a better list of favorite sellers whose lps were a described! I certainly share your frustration.

 

[davidk5]

Because she is a women and I'm not putting her down because of her gender, but I have found in most cases the LP's I have bought at that site that were over graded or not graded correctly, and all of the sellers were women. To me there is no grad as MINT not now not ever to me MINT means that cover is perfect record is perfect flat as a pan cake vinyl has a mirrored finish and when i play it after a proper cleaning it plays with absolutely no noise what so ever. Now the Japanese pressing come pretty darn close to that, but unless those Japanese pressing were never played then to me they would be graded as near mint. Her 64 Negatives would have stopped me from bidding. Sorry to hear you got screwed

Yeh i figured the 64 negatives most were over 6 months old & she does a ton of lp buisness , just glad i did not dump a ton of $$$
I just got 4 prince lp's today guy said they were in vg- shape , they were better than that so i'm psyched , probably vg ++ & all for $7 shipped .

IME, most sellers rate on visual inspection. Just the fact that someone rates an opened lp as "mint" should be a red flag in itself.

Yeh even on visual a few of these had 20+ needle drop scratches straight through songs , now way she could have looked at these , Maybe she's legally blind , i'll calle her eye doctor in the morning & get her off the road

 

[jhaan92]

+1 I'd not believe anyone who graded a record as "Mint". I don't know if I've ever seen a truly 'mint' record...maybe a handful over the course of the years. In any case, I like sellers who understate, rather than overstate, condition. And anyone claiming "Mint" isn't understating. They're either stating or overstating. So I steer clear of them.

Not entirely true-I bought two CBS Mastersound half-speed masters from someone on ebay, and in his auction, he stated that he bought them, and only listened to them once, and that was on a Thorens 160-BC Mk II Turntable, with a SME Series III tonearm. I think he knew what he was talking about. You have to wonder though.

I think that the sellers who sell the MFSL LP's are mostly out to make a buck. Have you seen the prices?! I wouldn't pay 300 dollars for a sealed copy of "Dark Side of the Moon"! Would you?? I have bought a few MFSL titles, mostly the lesser known ones (Manhattan Transfer, The Crusaders, & Joe Sample would be fine examples)-most people aren't interested in them.

I recently bought The Crusaders album "Chain Reaction" on the MFSL label. Granted I only paid 19.99 for it, but it wasn't in near mint condition. It wasn't until I cleaned it on my VPI 16.5, and gave it the full treatment with the Last products, that it sounded like it was near mint. I contacted the seller, and told him about it, and we came to the conclusion that if cleaning the record didn't help, and I wanted to return it, he would pay for shipping, and give me my money back-or if it didn't work, and I wanted to keep the album anyway, he would refund me half my money. Well, it worked, but he refunded me half my money anyway...."shop charges" he called it. At least he was nice...

I hope that you have better luck picking albums out in the future!


Jason

 

[pbda]

I think that many eBay sellers just stick "NM" in their listing and hope that the buyer can't be bothered to return the item.

I've returned 4-5 LPs in the past year to eBay sellers who have over-rated them, and have never had a problem obtaining a full refund. It is a hassle, however.

If I get an LP that's actually in better than graded condition, I add the seller to my "saved sellers" list. Sellers who play grade are, I think, usually more reliable.

 

[Andyman]

Grading records is a huge PITA.
One person's "NM" is an others' VG-. One's slight scratch is an others' Grand Canyon. I don't use Mint for anything I sell as it brings out the super anal and their microscopes, but rightly so as if implies perfection. NM is pretty much the same story.

FWIW, getting NM or M LPs for $3 sounds too good to be true. If they play well and sound fine, leave it be. Do you really want to go to war over $9.00??? Is it worth the effort??

Enjoy your LPs and don't use the seeler again if it's that big a deal.

 

[spideyjack]

A good seller will use The Goldmine standard for record grading. That way you always know what you are getting. I often play-grade my records and commemnt briefly about potential problems.

Here is an example of how I list records using the Goldmine system, or actually a minor variation of it, I add VG++ as my highest grade unless it is still sealed.

----This is from a completed auction, no longer for sale, only for entertaiment/educational purposes------

Item Specifics - Music: Records
Speed: 45 RPM Genre: R&B
Record Size: 7" Sub-Genre: Soul
Duration: Single

Rare Soul 45 from Indianapolis.

Warren Burris - Hard Times / Dance With Me

Eclipse ERC1-1022

VG++

I use the Goldmine standard for grading, and try and describe any flaw that I think may be an issue.

VG means the record will have some scuffs, clicks and maybe some surface noise.

VG+ will have some marks or clicks but no surface noise.

VG++ will sound and play great. Most would probably grade these as NM.

I rarely stick my neck out and use NM or MINT as grades. Mint means "still sealed" to me.

HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I sold this record for $26.00 by the way:thmbsp: The guy who bought it was really happy, my DSR for description is 4.7 not bad.


As a buyer I look at lots of sloppy listings, I can usually tell if the guy has no idea how to grade records. If I look at the sellers othe items and it's all childrens clothes then I have low expectations as to his/her gading ability.

 

[Jfall]

If a record has been played, it can't be mint. If a record has any visible marks, it can't be mint (that's right out of the definition). I agree with wordherder here; mint is a term that doesn't apply to records, unless they are unopened, in which case, the term is redundant.

As a practical matter, I always buy a few at low cost to test out new seller and I tend to stick to sellers that specialize in vinyl. I've had a few dissapointments (and those haven't been worth the bother to complain), but generally my experience has been positive.

I bought a David Bromberg LP once and the seller sent me the wrong one, (Greatest Hits) which I already owned. I wrote to him to explain his error thinking I don't want to be bothered with sending it back, but I don't want to pay for it either. He apologized, told me to keep it, and then sent me the correct one for no additional charge.

 

[davidk5]

I think that many eBay sellers just stick "NM" in their listing and hope that the buyer can't be bothered to return the item.

I've returned 4-5 LPs in the past year to eBay sellers who have over-rated them, and have never had a problem obtaining a full refund. It is a hassle, however.

If I get an LP that's actually in better than graded condition, I add the seller to my "saved sellers" list. Sellers who play grade are, I think, usually more reliable.

Yeh i got a message back stating

i do not know vinyl that well

Uhhh then why are you selling & grading it & listing it all as "mint" .......... she said she would accept returns , then i asked if she would pay return shipping & she said i have to pay .
I guess i'll just leave Bad feedback & be done with it , it's just not worth me shipping stuff back .

 

[Stanton681EEES]

Yeh i got a message back stating


Uhhh then why are you selling & grading it & listing it all as "mint" .......... she said she would accept returns , then i asked if she would pay return shipping & she said i have to pay .
I guess i'll just leave Bad feedback & be done with it , it's just not worth me shipping stuff back .

Doesn't that just kill you, her grading sucks, so your out initial shipping plus returning them you'd be out return shipping. :nono:

 

[SLM3Tech]

I'm glad SPIDEYJACK mentioned play grading.

LPs are an auditory medium. The only proper way to assess it is with play grading. Anything less is simply guessing. It's certainly not logical to grade how something sounds on the way it looks. How does this escape folks?

The problem, especially with large inventory sellers, is that it's just not feasible or practical to fully play grade every LP in it's entirety. Therefore visual grading is settled for, which means even seasoned graders are guessing. I only took the time to play grade LPs that were already going to be pricing anyway due to rarity. If my supervisor had known that, they probably would not have approved of me taking the extra time. Though I know without a doubt I saved them some customers that way.

Sealed records were never considered mint. They were only considered still sealed. A sealed record can be warped, can have mold release agents stuck to it (crackly sound... sometimes severe) or other such issues that will never be known until it is opened by the purchaser.

I always take a visual grading with a grain of salt, whether "mint" or "very good" and hope for the best. There were plenty of records I had to visually grade as VG or VG+ that play graded EX or NM. I don't feel justified coming back at a seller on a visual grading. Right there is the red flag that says get ready to take a chance. Most times I'll take the chance. Other times I'll just get it locally, if I can find it.

I guess that's all just part of "finding a great one in the hunt". Even a beater may well be worth it for the music it contains. I keep a Stanton Trackmaster for specifically for those times.

 

[davidk5]

Doesn't that just kill you, her grading sucks, so your out initial shipping plus returning them you'd be out return shipping. :nono:

Yeh , at that point it's just not worth it , i might break even if i returned the albums , well she has 24 hours to get back to me & pay for shipping .
at this point as much as i hate to leave bad feedback , i'd almost rather "warn" people none of her stuff is "mint" .

I'm glad SPIDEYJACK mentioned play grading

Yeh i agree , allthough i seem to have worse luck with these sellers , the last few i got that were "NM" play graded sounded like popcorn was cooking with the music , then id' get the "sounds like we are talking about 2 different albums" I offer to send a cassette recording of a few songs , then they just refund my $$$

 

[Mr. Lin]

I was only out $12.00 with shipping so I thought it not worth the time and energy.

That's why one ends up losing in this situation if it's an average-priced record ($4-$15), the shipping costs make it a waste of time and money to return something, unless the seller is willing to refund all expenses, which is rare.

 

[SLM3Tech]

That's why one ends up losing in this situation if it's an average-priced record ($4-$15), the shipping costs make it a waste of time and money to return something, unless the seller is willing to refund all expenses, which is rare.

Hey, if you're in Central NJ (my old stomping ground) you have some really great places to go in your area for used vinyl. I used to go up to The Record Setter on Rt. 18 a couple times a year. (I wasn't so fond of his "price them at the counter routine"; but, generally the prices were fair and the selection was great.) Personally, I have never been to the Princeton Record Exchange; but, now that I'm away from the area, I wish I had gone... ...often. There were a bunch more. Hopefully, some of them are still in business. Howell? Freehold?

 

[davidk5]

That's why one ends up losing in this situation if it's an average-priced record ($4-$15), the shipping costs make it a waste of time and money to return something, unless the seller is willing to refund all expenses, which is rare.

Now that i Threatened bad feedback she wants to play nice & pay $3 media mail return postage for about 6 of the lp's ..... Now i'm not sure what to do , it's becoming a waste of my time , but she is making an effort .
If i return them , maybe i'll file through paypla 1st to have a record of it .

 

[chet69]

Hey, if you're in Central NJ (my old stomping ground) you have some really great places to go in your area for used vinyl. I used to go up to The Record Setter on Rt. 18 a couple times a year. (I wasn't so fond of his "price them at the counter routine"; but, generally the prices were fair and the selection was great.) Personally, I have never been to the Princeton Record Exchange; but, now that I'm away from the area, I wish I had gone... ...often. There were a bunch more. Hopefully, some of them are still in business. Howell? Freehold?

There was a place on Rte. 18 with records haphazardly stored in shelves in no order. Most were in bad shape and I took one old Sinatra LP up to the counter and he wanted $12.00 for it although it had no sleeve and there bits of dirt on it.
I think the place is gone now.

The Princeton Record Exchange doesn't really have a big selection of good records cause there are constantly people going through them from the time they open up till the time they close. Plus you have to pay over a dollar an hour to the parking meters on the streets and walk half a mile to the store.
I wish they would've moved when they were thinking of doing that.

 

[davidk5]

Funny , i had ordered 5 more lp's from this seller a few days after my 1st purchase , those just showed up , there are 5 of them most are Vg++ 1 is NM , but i have to laugh , 1 that is supposed to be "mint" has about 10 huge scratches right through the vinyl , has no Inner sleeve & the back of the cover is ripped in a few places , i was showing it to my Girl last night who knows little about vinyl & she pointed out all the problems without me saying anything ............. I'm just started leaving the bad feedback today , i don't have time to ship stuff back & i;m bothered that people are buying stuff from her & being led to believe stuff is "mint" ....
I live , I learn ..........oh well , so stay away from "cfischlein1" as a vinyl seller .........
In good news I bought some new Vinyl at the store last night & have an order on the way from soundstage direct :yes:

 

[mid-fi-ry]

Be careful with the feedback thing too. Threatening negative feedback can be misconstrued as extortion by ebay and the seller can easily report that. Theres a claim/arbitration process of 30 days before you should be posting negative feedbacks.

 

[davidk5]

Be careful with the feedback thing too. Threatening negative feedback can be misconstrued as extortion by ebay and the seller can easily report that. Theres a claim/arbitration process of 30 days before you should be posting negative feedbacks.

well the 1st set has been just over 30 days , i played them all & the ones that played good i left good feedback (even though not mint) the ones that look like sandpaper i just left ""Mint" album with 10 scratches straight through LP , no innersleeve,cover ripped"
I just want other buyers to know what they may get , i know i'd want to know , not a big deal , i just found a cool store about an hour away that sells good used vinyl so i'm psyched about that .

 

[Greene Deere]

I typically only buy used vinyl where I can see it before I buy but have my first ebay album purchase on the way. Now I'm a little concerned as it was rated NM and was being sold by a woman who didn't have any other vinyl for sale just odds and ends stuff. I hadn't considered that she wouldn't understand the grading system. I guess I'll see when it hits!