ECC82 vs ECC802 vs Accurate Info

oldflame

oldflame

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Stereophile's recent review of the Italian Mastersound Compact 845, stereo integrated amp, was a fun read. Home-made single-ended transformers tweaked just for the 845 tubes, custom ICEL capacitors, Vishay 1% resistors, and Huber+Suhner Swiss wiring all reside in the 75# stainless steel chassis. TungSol 6SN7GTB's do the driving while a pair of JJ ECC802's are in the preamp stage.

When I asked for opinions about re-tubing my Rogue amp, it was suggested that I may want to spend more for other than the stock JJ's. That opinion pops up elsewhere too. It's interesting that this premium amp would use relatively inexpensive JJ's. Also interesting is that Mastersound claims the ECC802's are quieter and less microphonic than the short-plate version ECC82. That's opposite of what I've sometimes read and advice given by Rogue when asked about getting new tubes for their amp and preamp. Rogue liked the 802 for the power amp drive-stage but recommended the 82 in the preamp ... for less possibility of microphonics.

Splitting hairs or real, audible, differences. Tube Experts: what say you?
 
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I always thought the long plates were just a more ruggedly built tube.
I could be wrong. Honestly I don't really hear a difference between the long and short plate JJ 12AU7's. I'm one that likes JJ 12AX7's and 12AU7's.
There is also the JJ frame grid 12AX7. I just don't like spending crazy money on NOS tubes. Especially signal tubes. If your heater tap can handle the extra current, the old stock 12BH7's might be worth looking at for the voltage gain driver tube. I've liked them in all the amps I have that use 12AU7's, and can sill be had for decent money. They aren't really needed for spliters, etc., though.
 
I am no tube expert but the 12AU7 family of tubes offer so many oppurtunities. For my experience and budget, I find the RCA clear top a great value with sonic benefits. Like any other tubes make sure your tube source has done the proper testing. I personaly have not compared a JJ long vs short or 82 vs 802, but I sure have no issues with the RCA clear tops.
 
BNR_1 said:
I am no tube expert but the 12AU7 family of tubes offer so many oppurtunities. For my experience and budget, I find the RCA clear top a great value with sonic benefits. Like any other tubes make sure your tube source has done the proper testing. I personaly have not compared a JJ long vs short or 82 vs 802, but I sure have no issues with the RCA clear tops.
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I have some clear tops and like Them. I bought them when they were selling for around $25 each. I haven't looked at prices lately, but they are a nice sounding 12AU7. I was using three in my VTA ST-70 for a couple years. I5 wound up liking the 12BH7 for the voltage gain stage better. The other two in the amp are still clear tops though.
 
Understandably, it's sometimes difficult to describe exactly what sounds better and other times it's more obvious. Something like: the sound opened-up; it sounds more realistic; or there's more immediacy. Other times it's easier, like: the highs or lows are more extended; there's less glare or harshness; the tube is quieter, etc.

RCA clear-tops are often recommended, along with the 12BH7. I don't doubt those observations and may try some and even if I don't notice any improvement, at least I'll have good replacements. Can anyone describe what they like about those frequently recommended tubes?
 
The RCA clear tops have a clean clear sound to my ears. Some find them a bit bright on the top end though. Personally I didn't think so. The 12BH7's have more of a more open airy sound to them is the best way I can describe them.
 
I have used the JJ ECC99 in 12au7 and 12bh7 sockets and found them to sound very good. Keep in mind they draw more current so check that your amp can handle it.
 
The JJ ECC82 looks like a stout tube and resistant to microphonics - frame grid?. From what I've read, their ECC802 is also supposed to be rugged, with improved cooling and, possibly, better deep bass - equipment dependent or bigger plates improve low-frequency response?

Cooling isn't an issue with my Rogue amps but maybe it could make a difference if a tube shield is used and it resides in an old, densely-packed, receiver.
 
I'm using the ECC802's in my big mono blocks. I don't have any complaints.
I have found some tubes sound better in one amp than another though.
 

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Does a thread exist that covers the nuances of these tubes? Some have opined they prefer to avoid AU & AX varieties altogether. I'll assume there's enough difference between long and short plate versions or they wouldn't both be produced. What affects one's choice of using an ECC82 or ECC802s, for example? Aren't they essentially, electronically, the same - except for mechanical construction?
 
The short plate tubes are better as gain only devices, long plate versions are better equipped to handle driving the next stage. The larger plate structure runs cooler / better dissipation. I like using Sylvania 12AU7's as drivers, they have a nice sturdy plate.
 
Apparently, Rogue has switched from the JJ ECC802s to the ECC82, for their preamps, due to increasing instances of microphonics in the long-plate versions. They still recommend the 802s for driver stages. Of course, this may also be brand-dependent. The JJ ECC82 certainly looks more solid, if appearance is any indication.
 
I have yet to have a microphonic JJ ECC82, or ECC83. I have gotten a hold of a few EH signal tubes that were noisy right out of the box. I do like the EH 6922 though.
 
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