Fast recovery diode question

Fuzzbuster

Addicted Member
Hi again...Fuzz here. I have a S-C ASR 433 in my bedroom rig. I replaced the multi cap, voltage doubler caps and all other electrolytics. I increased the voltage doubler caps from 100uf to 250uf and bypassed the coupling caps on the output tubes with .01uf Malloy 150s. All this per info from this site. It also recommended replacing the top hat rectifier diodes with fast recovery types. I believe it said there would be some sonic benefit from using the UF diodes as well as reliability. Can anyone offer insight on this. Is there really an audible difference between, say, 1N4007 and a UF equivalent? Thanks, Fuzz.
 
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We're talking about 60Hz here. I don't see any particular advantage to using a fast-recovery diode in this application.
 
Rectification noise from commodity rectifiers can be reduced to about the same level as boutique rectifiers by adding a snubbing network to the transformer secondary winding. 0.001uF in series with 1K ohms does the job in almost every case.
 
Rectification noise from commodity rectifiers can be reduced to about the same level as boutique rectifiers by adding a snubbing network to the transformer secondary winding. 0.001uF in series with 1K ohms does the job in almost every case.
Interesting...
Can you expound a bit on this please? That would be before the diodes obviously. .so the cap first off the secondary, then the resistor? Thanks.
 
On the other hand the UF 4007 is so darn cheap why not use them. Will they offer lower switching noise than a regular 1n4007? I doubt it. Not at the frequency and currents we're talking about in a typical tube amp power supply.
 
The snubber would go across the secondary (i.e., between the two HV leads of the secondary) and before the rectifier.
 
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The definitive work on this topic is an article by Morgan Jones that appears in Linear Audio magazine, volume 5, titled "Rectifier snubbing -- background and Best Practices." Rectifier reverse recovery noise is essentially a radio-frequency phenomenon, but it becomes an audio problem when it excites transformer resonances and sneaks into the audio signal path via stray capacitance and incidental inductive coupling. The key to elimination of audio noise effects is to suppress transformer resonance. Jones showed that snubbing networks for this purpose are surprisingly effective and uncritical.
 
There are no polarized caps in the suggested value range. Just make sure the DC voltage rating is at least double your AC voltage exposure. There may be some advantage to using metalized film types here because they're "self-healing" after minor arc events.
 
If you're poking around in a 433, check the resistors. I eventually gave up on mine and replaced all of them. More than half were out of tolerance and I got tired of measuring them. It became faster to just change them all. It got much quieter and sounded considerably better once it was actually running like it should have.
 
That's the idea. Values may be changed.
That snubbing arrangement is more complex than necessary and probably less effective than Morgan Jones' recommendation. All you need is a series R/C network across the transformer secondary winding.
 
To heck wid snubbing them, just use a Schottky. Cree makes some very fine ones. 600V and 1200V with enough amperage capacity to run comfortably w/o a heatsink in a tube amp.
cheers,
Douglas
 
Summarized from my notes on diodes.

So you can readily evaluate the tradeoffs between the diode types:
Schottky Barrier Diode has Qrr < 20 nc.
Regular Schottky has a Qrr ~ 50 nc.
FRED varies with temperature, 30ºC Qrr ~ 150 nC , rising to 450 nC @ 150º. (As bad as ordinary silicon!)
Ultra Fast Recovery Diode varies with voltage, @600 V Qrr ~ 150 nc
Vanilla silicon had Qrr ~ 500 nc.​

The Qrr creates a high-frequency carrier which is AM modulated by mains frequency or 2x mains frequency. This signal is broadcast through the amplifier/preamplifier where it is received by any long wire.

The argument is commonly made to use an inexpensive (or least expensive) diode and add a snubber to remove the ringing. This is not the most horrible approach, but the issue is that the snubber must be carefully tailored to rapidly damp the ringing" too little ζ slowly damps the ringing and lets it broadcast noise while too much ζ rapidly damps the ringing but burns power. Remember, the resistor converts the ringing power into heat. So a noisier diode needs a smaller resistor in the snubber which wastes more power.

The manufacturers (such as Cornell-Dubilier) typically provide circuit calculations for SMPS, which is a different can of worms. But using a ζ of 0.5 to 0.707 is generally considered optimal. (The math isn't hard, but there's no easy way to dump my equations in here from Microsoft Word.)

Summary of the issues:
The tradeoff is bigger R, lower ζ, ringing slower damped, noise increases, power consumption is reduced.
The tradeoff is lower R, higher ζ, ringing faster damped, noise decreases, power consumption is increased.

Takeway:
Not adding noise in the first place can be easier than removing it, particularly since diodes with low Qrr are a small expense.
 
You mean like this across the HV secondary leads???
I know, my drawing skills are right up there with Tim Taylor! And on Paint too.

snubber.JPG
 
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