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Fisher XP-7 Recap

Zeus12

Zeus12

Active Member
Hello Everyone,

Decided to try my luck at a 2nd set of Vintage Speakers. Speaker sounds great as is but the tweeter seems almost dead. So I order all the parts from audiophonics.fr and decided to do a full recap of the crossover. The date on the board is February 1, 1965. Did a recap this morning. Replaced the 100 UF and 25 UF values with Mundorf E-Cap RAW (electrolytes) and for the 12 uF (12.1 uf) and 5 uF (4.9 uF) I used Mundorf MCAP 400V (film caps).

After the recap I noticed, first, tweeter is THE SAME. No improvement so most likely it´s the tweeter itself. I didn´t check it (voltmeter) since was going to do a full recap anyway. And second, the bass is LOWER AND WEAKER than before. What could the problem be? I double checked the connections and solder joints. Maybe bad soldering? Space was very tight. Mixing electrolytes and film caps? The specs are almost exactly the same. 12.1 uf and 4.9 uf. I used the schematics: pin1-1 for the 5 uf, pin 2-3 for the 12 uF, pin 3-5 for the 25 uF, pin 6-7 for the 100 uF. Exactly the same as before. What could the problem be?

Appreciate any help.

Original Crossover with original electrolyte caps. Was sounding GREAT. Only problem, almost inexistent treble.
fisher xp-7 pic1.jpg

Caps Used: MUNDORF E-CAP ECAP100 (BR100) RAW for 100uf and MUNDORF E-CAP ECAP100 10 uf + 15 uf RAW (for total of 25 uf)
MUNDORF MCAP Capacitor 400V 2.2 uf + 2.7 uf (4.9 total) and MUNDORF MCAP Capacitor 600V 3.9 uF + MUNDORF MCAP Capacitor 250V 8.2 uF (12.1 uf Total).
fisher xp-7 recap.jpg

After recap:
fisher xp-7 after recap.jpg
 
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Sorry, forgot to post a picture of the speakers themselves

All original and in fairly good shape. Capinets are solid. Could use a reveneer but sound is my primary concern. fisher xp-7 stack.jpg
 
Do they have the T200 tweeters? That's what's in my XP10. They are working and stiff. Poor top end.
My XP7b doesn't use the T200 (a pair of matching cones instead) and the top end is good.
Mids (a none matching pair) are very good.
Bass extension and weight are fine, but detail is not striking. I think your woofer is not identical. Your bass loss is indeed a puzzle.
I suspect your tweeter is stiff and working. The Advent fried egg is said to work very well as a substitute. It goes below the cross point of the T200.
The XP7b
P1130003.JPG
 
acoustic suspension speaker , the drivers need to be sealed tight to the cabinet to function properly.
to check seal push the bass cone in and let it go , if it springs right back you have a leak somewhere , it should move back to rest somewhat slowly.
most likely the bass speaker when you had it out to do the re-cap , if you had the mid's and tweeter out of the cabinet check their seal also.
 
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Thank you "quiet" and "fo427ea". I really appreciate your help. As far as I know these are the original "egg" tweeters and almost EVERYBODY says that after more than half a century, need replacement (very stiff, parts fall off, etc.). To be honest, I don´t really care about the highs that much. I really like my highs "ROLLED OFF". Also, I have another Fisher speaker staked on top, The Fisher XP-55b (recapped to original specs). I have it with it´s tweeter facing down, so I get more or less one "big" complete speaker. Sounds GREAT to my ears and last night I was having nightmares. I made this beautiful Vintage Masterpiece of a speaker WORSE than before. Can somebody explain to me why the woofer wire leads are reversed? The black cable (com) goes to the "red" dot (+) terminal of the woofer. Could it be that the soldering done on the 100 uf cap (pins 6-7) is a coulprit as well? The mids are the same as before. Perhaps a little "crispier". I would imagine that is because of the 12.1 uF Mundorf caps, and from what I understand, they need some time to "settle" down.

I tried the "check the seal" by pushing in carefuly and gently the woofer cone and you are absolutely right "fo427ea". It doesn´t spring back the same way as the other woofer. It springs back much faster than the other one. I didn´t take out the mids or tweeter so it is definetelly the woofer seal. Should I use "gasket" tape or "hot glue" to get a tight seal between the baffle rim and basket of the speaker?

Should I also try to change the 100 uf cap, which is the one effecting the bass, with the original one? I don´t know how to check their values with a regular "tester" (volt and ohms).

Thanks for your help!!

Happy Holidays!
 
"Can somebody explain to me why the woofer wire leads are reversed? The black cable (com) goes to the "red" dot (+) terminal of the woofer."

3 way speaker crossovers often have the mid-range drivers wired reverse of the other drivers to keep the phasing correct , as long as you wired them back as you found them and they are both wired the same I would think your lack of bass is from drivers being not completely sealed to the cabinet.
 
Hi f0427ea!!

Ok, after banging my head all night and thinking that it was something with the caps or soldering problem, I think I know what the problem is. Took some pics and labeled them to make it easier.

First of all: The basket rim on the edges was broken. It was cut-off, with something very straight. Fisher uses some type of fabric for supsensions so in theory you never need to replace the susupensions. On the outer edges, after the paper cone, the fabric/suspension is a type of see-through cloth, almost looks like a pantyhose. I can also see the voice coil through the dust cap. Doesn´t seem exactly level to me. Might be wrong on that.
Woofer Fisher Xp-7.jpg

Cleaned the bottom of the rim and applied gasket tape made especially for speakers (one part is adhesive).
Gasket tape.jpg

Applied some plastiline on the broken edges to make the seal even tighter, if possible.
broken edges of rim.jpg

Bass improved a bit but still not like the other woofer, which is whole and springs back in "slow-motion" compared to this one.
fabric suspension broken.jpg

This is how I have them stacked. Fisher Xp-7 on the bottom and Fisher Xp-55b on top (tweeter facing down) and powered by a Sansui 661. I drives all 4 speakers A+ B and it doesn´t even break a sweat. I literally cannot raise the volume past 1. Great combination. All gear from mid 60´s to early 70´s. Sounds 100 times better than the new **** they make today. Any options on the woofer? Is it fixable? Worth it?
Fisher Stack.jpg

Big thanks for all your help!! I´m still a neophyte in the hobby but I am willing to learn -- and when there is a will there is a way!!

"Knowledge that does not support growth or growth that is not supported by knowledge is not valuable." - Manly P. Hall (Teacher and Student Relationships and Responsibilities) lecture
 
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I think it would be ok for the gasket tape to cover the screw holes. Then run the screws through them.
It appears to be a front mount speaker, so I don't see any other opportunities for woofer leaks in regards to mounting the woofer.
Looks like all that's left to do is switch the woofers from one cabinet to the other and see if the problem follows the woofer.
 
Thank you "quiet". "Looks like all that's left to do is switch the woofers from one cabinet to the other and see if the problem follows the woofer." You are a genius!! That sure would have saved me some hours of sleep last night, hahaha.

Thank you "f0427ea". The solution on ebay looks to be "just what the doctor ordered". Unfortunately, I think that I haven´t "graduated" to that level yet. I will keep it in mind for the future though.

In the meantime, I will listen to some good music. To my ears they sound very good. But then again, I don´t have a large enough auditive mental database to know "how good" a speaker can sound. The ultimate objective, I would imagine, is to literally have Frank Sinatra in your living room, hahaha. The speakers tend to "disappear" so I think that´s a good sign.

I remember when I got a new pair of Kef iQ3 bookshelf speakers (2006?). I thought, wow!!! Sounds soooo good and natural. Now it sounds, metallic, harsh and unnatural. Can´t stand them. Fatigues very fast. That tweeter is "scraping" my brain it seems. They are "tuned" to be punchy and in your face. I want OLD SCHOOL style.

With these Fishers, you can listen ALL DAY, with no "listener´s fatigue". Same thing with the "Electro-Voice 16s", which were my first vintage pair to do a recap. https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/electro-voice-ev-16-restoration-checklist.880758/

All the best!!
 
I think you're a candidate for Dynaco speakers. The A-25 is most popular. I'm partial to the A-40XL.
 
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