FX Audio 6j1 tube preamp - a $31 wonder

Rob43, thanks for your fast response. This is a preamp so I assume it is going in between the resources and power amp. By any chance, do you know the connector for the 12DC is 5.5x2.1 or 2.5? Is there other power supply option, it costs more than the preamp itself?
PS. Yes, I can solder.

Buy this 5 amp unit, it's on sale for a good price.
www.amazon.com/Universal-Compact-Bench-Power-Supply/dp/B00069RB1Q/ref=bmx_3/137-4595797-5049628?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00069RB1Q&pd_rd_r=b166ce9a-4d33-4390-bd6f-212c85c206c2&pd_rd_w=AWZep&pd_rd_wg=Wz9eB&pf_rd_p=8cea7b83-adee-4ac8-bcfe-dcc442eb852a&pf_rd_r=XWY3YMQGMB63YRK8489F&psc=1&refRID=XWY3YMQGMB63YRK8489F

I'm 100% sure it's a 5.5mm x 2.1mm male plug.

Get your FX-01 and burn it in, then you can consider your soldering / modding.


Rob43

PS, Remember that your FX-01 comes with a cheap wall wart, you could simply cut the wire and use that plug/cord for your Pyramid PSU.
 
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It's likely that the various tubes you're trying have totally different - perhaps radically different - specs. Many are subs only in the sense that they share the same pinout.

Normally, I would advise caution and suggest that circuit changes might be in order. But it probably doesn't make any difference in this situation since these preamps don't operate the tubes anywhere close to the operating points suggested in the data sheets.

The operating points (voltages / currents) they are subjected to are a tiny fraction of what they are designed for. Problems with unreliability would likely either be because a particular tube is just plain defective or you're running a higher voltage power supply that results in heater voltages that are on the high side. The more the heater voltage exceeds the nominal (6.3v) voltage, the shorter the lifespan.

If you find certain types to sound better, you might want to take a close look at the data sheets. There might be some clues that would correlate to what you're hearing.

http://tubedata.milbert.com/index.html

Some of the data sheets may not show specs for triode operation, which is how they are being run. If you can find one that has plate curves for triode mode and draw a load line based on the operating points used in the preamp you'll wonder how in the world they sound as good as they do. It will also be apparent that there is much to be gained by operating them at normal operating points.

Hi FlaCharlie,

thanks for the link - an excellent source of information indeed!

The tubes I am trying out are in the direct equivalence range of those either shipped with the Tube-01 & Tube-03, or those recommended by the manufacturer/sellers.

I wouldn't simply pop them in because they have the same number of pins (forbid!).

I will apply caution with the EF96 tubes as these have only been mentioned by a seller of a re-branded version of Tube-03 and your link has added some extra information that will help a great deal.

A direct quote from the seller of the re-branded version of Tube-03 which ships with 6J3 tubes: :

"The 6J3 tube is used by default. Compatible with a variety of electronic tubes, such as 6J1, 6J3, 6J5, 6K4 and other specifications."


The Chinese 6J3 tube is equivalent to EF96 / Soviet 6J3P and is not to be confused with the western 6J3 / 6SH7 all metal octal type - an entirely different beast altogether.

The Chinese 6K4 tubes (essentially an EF93 / 6BA6/ Tesla 6F31/ Soviet 6K4P equivalent) are now shipped with the original FX-Audio Tube-01 & Tube-03 as a factory standard.

See here: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ef93.html

As I understand it, these tube preamps run on EF93 (confirmed), EF95 (confirmed) and possibly EF96 (unconfirmed).

Thanks again for your information and your input, it is much appreciated.
 
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Hi FlaCharlie,

thanks for the link - an excellent source of information indeed!

The tubes I am trying out are in the direct equivalence range of those either shipped with the Tube-01 & Tube-03, or those recommended by the manufacturer/sellers.

I wouldn't simply pop them in because they have the same number of pins (forbid!).

I will apply caution with the EF96 tubes as these have only been mentioned by a seller of a re-branded version of Tube-03 and your link has added some extra information that will help a great deal.

A direct quote from the seller of the re-branded version of Tube-03 which ships with 6J3 tubes: :

"The 6J3 tube is used by default. Compatible with a variety of electronic tubes, such as 6J1, 6J3, 6J5, 6K4 and other specifications."


The Chinese 6J3 tube is equivalent to EF96 / Soviet 6J3P and is not to be confused with the western 6J3 / 6SH7 all metal octal type - an entirely different beast altogether.

The Chinese 6K4 tubes (essentially an EF93 / 6BA6/ Tesla 6F31/ Soviet 6K4P equivalent) are now shipped with the original FX-Audio Tube-01 & Tube-03 as a factory standard.

See here: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ef93.html

As I understand it, these tube preamps run on EF93 (confirmed), EF95 (confirmed) and possibly EF96 (unconfirmed).

Thanks again for your information and your input, it is much appreciated.
Having the same pinout doesn't just refer to the number of pins. It refers to the pins being connected to the same elements within the tube.

Obviously, the tubes also need to have the same base, a 7 pin miniature in this case.

As I said, normally I would discourage the use of subs that aren't true equivalents. But since the ultra-low voltages used in these preamps totally ignore the recommended operating points, it probably doesn't make any difference.

One thing I would caution about is using subs with heater currents that are different from the original tube.

It's sometimes difficult to find datasheets for the Chinese tubes, and to a lesser extent, the Russians. Being able to decipher them is another matter, even if you can find them. For instance I couldn't find one for the 6J3 or the EF96. But after a little digging I found that the American equivalent is the 6AG5.

Looking at the heater currents, the 6J3/6AG5 is .3a (300mA), as is the EF93. But the heater current for the EF95 is only .175a (175mA). This matters because when current draw is reduced the voltage goes up. So if your heater voltages are on the high side using a 300mA tube, they may well go too high if you drop in a 175mA tube, even though the other aspects of the tube are not an issue.

I haven't looked at all the possible subs, but if there is one whose heater draws more than 300mA, that would likely put too much strain on the circuit and cause damage. As I've mentioned in some older posts, the parts used in these preamps are often under-specd and run very close to the edge.

So there's more to it than just having compatible pinouts.
 
Having the same pinout doesn't just refer to the number of pins. It refers to the pins being connected to the same elements within the tube.

Obviously, the tubes also need to have the same base, a 7 pin miniature in this case.

As I said, normally I would discourage the use of subs that aren't true equivalents. But since the ultra-low voltages used in these preamps totally ignore the recommended operating points, it probably doesn't make any difference.

One thing I would caution about is using subs with heater currents that are different from the original tube.

It's sometimes difficult to find datasheets for the Chinese tubes, and to a lesser extent, the Russians. Being able to decipher them is another matter, even if you can find them. For instance I couldn't find one for the 6J3 or the EF96. But after a little digging I found that the American equivalent is the 6AG5.

Looking at the heater currents, the 6J3/6AG5 is .3a (300mA), as is the EF93. But the heater current for the EF95 is only .175a (175mA). This matters because when current draw is reduced the voltage goes up. So if your heater voltages are on the high side using a 300mA tube, they may well go too high if you drop in a 175mA tube, even though the other aspects of the tube are not an issue.

I haven't looked at all the possible subs, but if there is one whose heater draws more than 300mA, that would likely put too much strain on the circuit and cause damage. As I've mentioned in some older posts, the parts used in these preamps are often under-specd and run very close to the edge.

So there's more to it than just having compatible pinouts.

I have rolled my share of one offs in, but with so many great Ef-95's, 6AK5's and 5654's the risk reward is not worth it.
The Holland EF-95's are some of the best tubes, I have heard in any application.
The nickel plated RCA 6AK5's are also great sounding more neutral tubes.
 
So sad....

I guess we never should attempt to put an Astronaut on Mars.

Without failures, there can be no success.


Rob43
 
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Having the same pinout doesn't just refer to the number of pins. It refers to the pins being connected to the same elements within the tube.

Obviously, the tubes also need to have the same base, a 7 pin miniature in this case.

As I said, normally I would discourage the use of subs that aren't true equivalents. But since the ultra-low voltages used in these preamps totally ignore the recommended operating points, it probably doesn't make any difference.

One thing I would caution about is using subs with heater currents that are different from the original tube.

It's sometimes difficult to find datasheets for the Chinese tubes, and to a lesser extent, the Russians. Being able to decipher them is another matter, even if you can find them. For instance I couldn't find one for the 6J3 or the EF96. But after a little digging I found that the American equivalent is the 6AG5.

Looking at the heater currents, the 6J3/6AG5 is .3a (300mA), as is the EF93. But the heater current for the EF95 is only .175a (175mA). This matters because when current draw is reduced the voltage goes up. So if your heater voltages are on the high side using a 300mA tube, they may well go too high if you drop in a 175mA tube, even though the other aspects of the tube are not an issue.

I haven't looked at all the possible subs, but if there is one whose heater draws more than 300mA, that would likely put too much strain on the circuit and cause damage. As I've mentioned in some older posts, the parts used in these preamps are often under-specd and run very close to the edge.

So there's more to it than just having compatible pinouts.

Hi FlaCharlie,

Once again, thanks for the information & advice, it is most helpful and I appreciate everyone's input. This all adds to the growth of the community knowledge base - what this forum is for.

I understand the concept of pinouts, plate heaters and current draw and appreciate your concern. I now own 4 of these units and 3 of them are solely for the purpose of experimentation.
My actions are deliberate - to push the unit and see how far I can go. I don't mind destroying it in order to satisfy my curiosity and hopefully these results could be of help to someone else. I am mindful of specifications and do attempt to find the tube specs if possible. For those I can't, I will take the gamble.

These are low value devices and I wouldn't easily do the same to a unit that is a few hundred dollars or more.

I have already inadvertently destroyed and replaced a transistor in my first one. I had swapped the two opamps out but I lost focus, got distracted and in my haste to test, put the replacements in the wrong way (something I'm usually very careful with).
Once I powered it up I got a nice bang and some smoke. I knew what I had done as soon as it happened and I kicked myself for being so careless.
The unit still worked but the tone controls didn't. The transistor had partially vaporized. Once I replaced the transistor it worked perfectly, the opamps were destroyed in the process. They were cheap ones I had spare so it wasn't an issue.
I think these devices are a bit more sturdier than they are given credit for (or maybe I was just lucky).

I welcome your input and points of concern, much can be learnt from sharing knowledge and even more when "pushing the envelope".

All the best.
 
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Looking at the heater currents, the 6J3/6AG5 is .3a (300mA), as is the EF93. But the heater current for the EF95 is only .175a (175mA). This matters because when current draw is reduced the voltage goes up. So if your heater voltages are on the high side using a 300mA tube, they may well go too high if you drop in a 175mA tube, even though the other aspects of the tube are not an issue.

Hi FlaCharlie,
reading this again, you are actually stating that EF95 tubes (lower plate current) are causing an increase in voltage, therefore, the ones Dr.Ears loves (EF95) are pushing the limits of the unit. Is this correct, perhaps a typing mistake, or am I reading it incorrectly? If so, please warn Dr.Ears for engaging in risky behaviour.:whip:;):D.

I know the answer but I'm being a bit lighthearted here, so please don't take offence or get unduly upset. We all need to lighten up a bit and keep this friendly. We need more laughter and try not to take ourselves too seriously, especially in these challenging times. :banana:
 
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Some relevant info on tubes being tested in the Tube-03:
(thanks to radiomuseum.org)

6K4/ 6K4P / EF93 / 6BA6/ 6F31 - Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.3 Ampere / Indirect / Parallel
6J4 / 6J4P / EF94 / 6AU6 - Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.3 Ampere / Indirect / Parallel **
6J1P / EF95 / 6AK5
- Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.175 Ampere / Indirect / Parallel
6J3/ 6J3P / EF96 / 6AG5
- Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.3 Ampere / Indirect / Parallel **
6J5P / 6AH6 / 6F36
- Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.45 Ampere / Indirect / Parallel **

** - not yet tried in TUBE-03 / unconfirmed / researching.

I can confirm that the 6K4P & 6J1P work flawlessly and their direct equivalent are already shipped with the Tube-01 & Tube-03.

The 6J3P are on their way and have not yet been tried although these (6J3), as posted earlier, are shipped with the re-branded version of Tube-03 so should be fine. I will update the results when they arrive.

I'm currently researching the EF94 / 6J4 tubes to check compatibility before ordering.

The "risk" here will be trying out the 6j5p tubes - this is going to be fun, with possible fireworks to follow. ;)
 
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Can someone confirm this preamp output can go into my vintage integrated Onkyo A7022 main in once I remove the jumpers out from it? Thx.
 
Hi FlaCharlie,
reading this again, you are actually stating that EF95 tubes (lower plate current) are causing an increase in voltage, therefore, the ones Dr.Ears loves (EF95) are pushing the limits of the unit. Is this correct, perhaps a typing mistake, or am I reading it incorrectly? If so, please warn Dr.Ears for engaging in risky behaviour.:whip:;):D.

I know the answer but I'm being a bit lighthearted here, so please don't take offence or get unduly upset. We all need to lighten up a bit and keep this friendly. We need more laughter and try not to take ourselves too seriously, especially in these challenging times. :banana:

Risky behavior was daring Rudy Giuliani to indict me, this is fun !
He didn't and I toasted his best prosecutor.
My cousin, Alan Dershowitz spared Trump from impeachment.

I have a single Philips Mini Watt, Holland ECC82 goosing all four QUAD channels on my QRX-6500!
 
Just placed an order of tube 1, is there a recap part list for it some where? Thx.

No.

But I've helped several others on re-capping, there are 2 or 3 very good choices* that won't break the bank.

Burn it in first, then send me a PM.


Rob43

* Fitment is the limiting factor.
 
Hi FlaCharlie,
reading this again, you are actually stating that EF95 tubes (lower plate current) are causing an increase in voltage, therefore, the ones Dr.Ears loves (EF95) are pushing the limits of the unit. Is this correct, perhaps a typing mistake, or am I reading it incorrectly? If so, please warn Dr.Ears for engaging in risky behaviour.:whip:;):D.

I know the answer but I'm being a bit lighthearted here, so please don't take offence or get unduly upset. We all need to lighten up a bit and keep this friendly. We need more laughter and try not to take ourselves too seriously, especially in these challenging times. :banana:
No offense taken and I apologize if I'm coming across too heavy on all this.

I'm just saying that you have to look at all the factors that make one tube different from another and take that into account when you try them.

Edit: just noticed the recent posts but haven't read them yet . . .

As it turns out, my concern about the tubes with lower heater current is misplaced.

The original version came with the Chinese 6J1 which has a 175mA heater, as do the 6AK5, 5654 and EF95.

Earlier, you linked an "exotic" variant labelled Rod Rain Audio which gives the buyer a choice between 6J3P and 6K4P tubes. Those tubes, along with the 6AG5 / 6186 and 6F31, all have 300mA heaters. And some other tubes you listed as subs, 6J5P / 6AH6 / 6F36/ 6485 have a heater current of 450mA.

I'm used to dealing with transformers which have high voltage windings and heater windings for which specs are usually available. So you have an idea about how much current each winding can safely handle. Looking at the schematic posted earlier, I can't say that I fully understand the (internal) PS circuit used in these. Certainly the 1N4007 diodes are able to handle more current than is being used but I have no idea about the limitations of the other components.

I also realized that, back in the thread a ways, someone measured their voltages for me when I was setting up my breadboard. The heaters were actually a bit lower than 6.3v with a 12v PS and and almost 5% over with a 13.8v supply. It's best to stay within 5%. Those voltages were taken with tubes whose heaters draw 175mA.

So heater voltages should not be an issue but I'd still be concerned with the voltage on some of the caps. As I recall, with a 13.8v supply, the measured voltage on the 35v cap was at, or slightly above, 35v. They could have used 50v parts, which is what any competent designer would do, but they apparently didn't want to spend the extra 6 or 8 cents.

Quality caps can handle some abuse but who knows if the caps in these are really name brands or counterfeits. Unfortunately, this is always a concern with Chinese gear. When someone identifies one counterfeit part, as @Rob43 did, it makes you wonder about others.

You might want to measure the heater voltages with the higher current tubes and keep an eye out to see if you notice anything running hotter than normal, which would be a sign of stress on the circuit.

As you can see from the pinout, they are Pins 4 and 5. Of course, the pin diagram is the view from the bottom of the tube.

Again, I'm not familiar with these types of (internal) power supplies and how they react to over current conditions. In a normal tube amp if you put too much current on a winding, the voltage will drop below its nominal (in this case 6.3v) rating and the transformer will run hotter, indicating stress.

Since you're into experimenting, you should consider building a more traditional preamp that uses these tubes at the operating points they were designed to use. See my posts and schematics earlier in the thread. It would be an eye-opening experience for you.
 
Hi FlaCharlie,

No need to apologize! On the contrary, I really appreciate your concern and in the way you explain, it shows you care. That link you posted is invaluable and a great resource.

Yes, I will have a look at your earlier posts and schematics and thanks for the "heads up".
I've been keen to put my hand to doing a full build and I've already been looking at some resources recommended by friends.

It's well past bed time now but I will have a look after work tomorrow.
Thanks again.
 
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... It looks better since unlike the Pyramid it's connections are on the back.
View attachment 1357226
Hi ! first of all thanks a lot for directing us to this very nice little unit i have also now. I am using an Apple 12VDC smps and i like what i am hearing. Noise is quite low from the speakers. I am in the middle of some tubes rolling now ...
Regarding your problem :biggrin: why not drill two holes in the back and put some very nice binding posts :rolleyes:

5c46e2147c15f12df027bfa3-7-large.jpg
 
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