Getting into avant garde jazz.

Brett a

Brett a

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I just can't get enough late Coltrane as well as Eric Dolphy; I bought Ornette Coleman's Shape of Jazz to Come less than 24 hours ago and have already listened to it about seven times (really).

I think its taken me about 15 years of listening to pre-war jazz, swing, (passed over post-war pop-thank you anyway), be-bop and post-bop to be able to finally hear the music in some of this later avant and free jazz. And now I just can't get enough of it.

I got here thanks to John Coltrane. Who, through his mid-career albums on Atlantic, has delivered me by the hand to bathe in the now comforting sounds of albums such as Ascension,Transition, Sun Ship, and Meditations.

I also have and love Eric Dolphy's "Out to Lunch", "Way Out" and "Last Date". As well as Ornette Coleman's "Shape of Jazz to Come" and "Free Jazz".

Anyone else been here, done this? Where do I go from here?
 
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Your route is similar to mine.

I started with John Coltrane's The Other Village Vanguard Tapes, to my knowledge only on LP but may be represented on the box sets.

Got some of the same Ornette Coleman. Some Eric Dolphy can't remember which.

On a side note, I noticed the Twilight Zone TV series and movies in that time period also used a lot of avante garde jazz to perfectly set that dissonant edgy mood.
 
reggaenaut said:
Early Gato Barberi; (1965)album "Gato Barberi and Don Cherry"
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Right. That'd be avant with Brazilian rhythms. I think Airto Moreira played with Gato. Or is that later?
reggaenaut said:
Phoroah Saunders.
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That reminds me, I bought Pharaoh Sanders and Maleem Mahmoud Ghania "Trance of the Seven Colors" when it came out in '94. I'm definitely going to pull it out when I get home.
http://whatsinmyipod.blogspot.com/2007/06/maleem-mahmoud-ghania-with-pharoah.html
 
Sounds cool. I'm still trying to wrap my head and ears around Coltrane. I did hear some avant-garde jazz not long ago... woah... trippy... not ready for that quite yet :D But it is cool to explore and evolve one's tastes! :thmbsp:
 
I have also followed a similar path but am not quite there yet. I still like Lester Young, Charlie Parker and Miles Davis and early Coltrane but I see the progression continuing.
 
I tried some years ago, then took a step back. I can still handle Coltrane's Atlantic recordings, even some of the Impulses, but not really much after A Love Supreme. I bought the Ornette Coleman box set and listened to it on and off for about 10 years, finally sold the set.

I like players who can go right up to the edge, but not completely jump off. Dewey Redman, George Adams, Yusef Lateef, or maybe mid to late 60s Wayne Shorter. Even Joe Henderson could be out there while still staying within the tradition.

I feel the same about Dolphy as I do about Trane. I love the stuff where he plays right on the edge between in and out, like on Straight Ahead with Oliver Nelson, or even on Trane's Live at the Vanguard. I can't stand Out to Lunch.
 
My personal reaction: it is a mood thing. Sometimes I am there and another time I am not. A transitional player is Joe Henderson.
 
Derek Bailey's guitar work, as mentioned above, is very interesting and quite satisfying to the discerning ear. Yeah, Don Cherry's probably a must for you at this point. Maybe now is also the right time for you to investigate...

Anthony Braxton
Steve Lacy
Henry Threadgill

... just to name three obvious avantgardists. The world of avant garde jazz is vast, my friend, spanning several decades, from the 1960 (Trane, Dolphy, Ornette & Lacy) to today's John Zorn, et al. Gosh, there's that whole Hat/Hut records catalog to consider. Collect 'em all, I say.
 
I kinda like the various incarnations of: David Fiuczynski [FUZE] http://www.torsos.com/

For example with John Medeski - Lunar Crush--killer keyboards too.

Some of his stuff is out there :smoke:

Oh yes, and John Zorn...Fred Frith...Wayne Horvitz/Zony Mash...
 
bailey denied any relationship to 'jazz'-- we have a tendency to ascribe any kind of free improv to jazz, but truly, many of these improv guys are trying to escape any and all known 'bags' ...
 
Brett a said:
Right. That'd be avant with Brazilian rhythms. I think Airto Moreira played with Gato. Or is that later?
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I believe it is later. Those are two of my favorite jazz musicians. Yesterday was lucky enough to go to the house of a patient of my cousing, who's husband died 9 yrs ago and he had over 1K albums. Little by little she has been giving them away, some in good condition others in very bad shape. Anyways, the motherload of vintage salsa, latin jazz (ie. Tito Puente, Ray Barreto, Mongo Santamaria, Joe Cuba, etc.), and jazz (Dizzie, Coltrane, Gato, Airto, Irakere, etc.) records was there. Some of the best ones had been taken, but there were still good finds, like Tito Puente's 20th Anniversary unopened, Irakere, Gato Barbieri, and others. Took about 25 home, best of all: Free! Another unopened record that was there: Deodato 2.
 
Thanks for the recomendations so far.

Since I started this thread a month ago, I've almost filled out my post-Love Supreme Coltrane collection (on LP). I think all I need to get is "Transitions" and I will have all his Impulse! studio work. I still can't get enough. Highlights of this late era Coltrane for me so far are Sun Ship, First Meditations, Om, Kulu Se Mama and Selflessness. I'm finding it increasingly soft and relaxing---comforting actually. I'm still not fully "there" with Meditations and Ascension. Knowing that Elvin Jones did not enjoy playing with Rashid Ali puts a bit of a damper on it for me. They have such divergent styles.

I also found copies of Pharoa Sanders' "Thembi" and "Karma" as well as an Impulse! compilation titled "No Energy Crisis" which has cuts from Alber Ayler, Gato Barbieri, Archie Shepp, Marion Brown, Sun Ra, and Dewey Redman among others. I still have some other titles in my collection to check out including Alice Coltrane and Don Cherry.

I want to get more into Albert Ayler, and I'll definitely check out the Art Ensemble of Chicago as well as Roscoe Mitchell's solo output.

One edge I'm finding is where free/avant meets fusion. Personally, I cannot stand fusion. As soon a jazz player picks up an electric bass, it's over for me.
I think I'm seeing that post-fusion avant jazz often carries a tone of fusion into it. A deal breaker for me (unless it's Zappa, but then it's not jazz anymore, it's rock (in my mind)).

Anyway, thanks again for the recommendations. Feel free to keep them coming.
 
I love a lot of this music too. I sometimes play guitar live at a number of avant garde venues in the NYC area. I am an experimental guitarist. I think that avant garde is the only genre that merges all the other genres into it. It can be anything you like. I have a number of friends who play around the NYC in various avant garde groups. Some of them live in my building. Coltrane's Live in Japan and Meditations are great and so is Miles Davis Bitches Brew. I am sure you have all checked them out as well. Avant Garde is the place you go to when you get tired of all the formated and programed music that exists in the world. It requires a high level of listening skills and can combine classical music, Jazz or any other format into it. My group is called THE EXPLORATION PROJECT. I play guitars, Matt Posner recites his poetry and Eric Henty paints abstract landscapes as well all perform live. We have a number of gigs coming up. Check out our website Explorationproj.com for more information. It's great to see this thread up and running. Scottsmrnyc
 
I've really enjoyed the jazz vinyl collection I have built up over the last year, but I'm not ready for the avant garde stuff yet. Maybe in a few more years of listening.

Music is a journey -- and what a great journey it is.
 
Not a music recommendation, exactly, but Ben Ratliff's recent book, _The Jazz Ear_ has an interesting conversation with Ornette Coleman, among others. It's a great concept, imo: instead of asking musicians about their own playing, Ratliff sits down with them to listen to several recordings of their own choosing. It's pretty insightful.
 
Maybe a little too on the fusion side of things for you but The Fourth Way deserves a mention and a listen. The albums I have are The Fourth Way, The Sun and Moon Have Come Together, and Werewolf. These were my entry point into avant garde 35 years ago and I love this music to this day.
Tom
 
I highly recommend Ornette's At The Golden Circle vols 1 and 2, Pat Metheny/Ornette Coleman's Song X, James Blood Ulmer's Tales of Captain Black (With Ornette), Ornette's Sound Grammar.

Also check out Andrew Hill, Cecil Taylor, and McCoy Tyner for piano. Not sure if anyone mentioned Sun Ra, but Atlantis is pretty nifty.
 
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