Grado cartridges on an AT120 turntable- Is Anyone Using?

[Arthur Smith]

I'd love to try the Grado Black. But am reading that, like many direct drive tables, that folks have problems with hum when using a Grado on a direct drive machine. I wrote to Grado, who told me that a table that emits EMI will likely hum with their carts, therefore not being compatible.

Is anyone using with success?

 

[marcmorin]

I'd love to try the Grado Black. But am reading that, like many direct drive tables, that folks have problems with hum when using a Grado on a direct drive machine. I wrote to Grado, who told me that a table that emits EMI will likely hum with their carts, therefore not being compatible.

Is anyone using with success?

Most DD table motors do not emit EMF. The transformers may, depends on how they are shielded, and their position in the table.
A good portion of belt drive tables produce EMF since the motor depends on wall frequency to maintain speed, and aren't shielded.
Got a compass? if so, hold it near the edge of the platter where the stylus would be. turn the table on......does the compass needle jump!!!!
to a position showing where the motor is? if yes, the Grado will pick that up. If the needle drifts to a different position.....probably won't pick up the motor emf. Besides, a DC motor, if that's what the table has may produce EMF, but not at 60hzAC

 

[WaynerN]

I had an AT120 and tried a Grado Gold on it. It hummed like a bastard.

'ner

 

[marcmorin]

I had an AT120 and tried a Grado Gold on it. It hummed like a bastard.

'ner

obvious the motor isn't DC, or the transformer isn't shielded, or both.

 

[Arthur Smith]

What Grado told me is that any table that emits electromagnetic interference will not be a compatible one with their carts. I'd love to try one of them, as I think the company has a tremendous heritage and a great story to tell. But I don't think it's worth taking the chance. It makes sense that any direct drive table falls into that category, and the AT120 most likely is missing some type of shielding.

 

[WaynerN]

obvious the motor isn't DC, or the transformer isn't shielded, or both.

It's the transformer location. I think I remember it being right under the cartridge when its perched on the tonearm rest. Dumb bastards could have put in the back left corner where it belongs.....Oh well. One of the reasons I don't own the deck anymore.

'ner

 

[WaynerN]

What Grado told me is that any table that emits electromagnetic interference will not be a compatible one with their carts. I'd love to try one of them, as I think the company has a tremendous heritage and a great story to tell. But I don't think it's worth taking the chance. It makes sense that any direct drive table falls into that category, and the AT120 most likely is missing some type of shielding.

Most Technics and Sony DD tables will work with a Grado. All of my Technics (SL1200MK2, SL1210MK5, SL-Q2 and Sony PS-X7 (X5 that Frank has) all work well with the Grado. No hum.

'ner

 

[majick47]

Agree with WaynerN, I'v used Grado cartridges on vintage Sony, Technics and Denon tables and not a bit of hum. A few corners were cut with AT120, I'd be moving on to a better table before investing in a Grado cartridge.

 

[DustyOldPile]

I wonder why Grado seems relatively uninterested in curing this ailment? They'd certainly sell a lot more cartridges if people weren't worrying about whether or not they'd hum.

 

[Arthur Smith]

It is too bad- I'd love to try one. Additionally, I would try one on my P-Mount table, but the Grado's inexplicably track heavier than the standard T4P 1.25 grams.

 

[Dr Tinear]

I wonder why Grado seems relatively uninterested in curing this ailment? They'd certainly sell a lot more cartridges if people weren't worrying about whether or not they'd hum.

I think it has a lot to do with the physical layout of the cartridge and the way that the stylus slides into the cartridge body from the bottom. That stylus slot would make it very difficult to design and install a mu-metal shield that worked. Cartridges that load the replaceable stylus from the front, such as Audio-Technica, Shure, Stanton, Pickering, and Empire, are much easier to shield against stray fields from motors and power transformers.

 

[Arthur Smith]

I think it has a lot to do with the physical layout of the cartridge and the way that the stylus slides into the cartridge body from the bottom. That stylus slot would make it very difficult to design and install a mu-metal shield that worked. Cartridges that load the replaceable stylus from the front, such as Audio-Technica, Shure, Stanton, Pickering, and Empire, are much easier to shield against stray fields from motors and power transformers.

This is great to know- thank you! it's unfortunate, because I have been really wanting to try one of their carts.

A

 

[Dr Tinear]

This is great to know- thank you! it's unfortunate, because I have been really wanting to try one of their carts.

A

I actually changed turntables a few years back to eliminate a hum problem with my Grado cartridge. I was using a Prestige Green, with the Audio by Van Alstine Longhorn modification, in an AR XA. That combination hummed very slightly as the cartridge neared the end of each side. I picked up a belt-drive Technics SL-230 turntable with an FG servo DC motor and my Grado hum problems were history. The Green sounded great with the old Technics, and replacing the stylus with an 8MZ V took it to a whole new level of detail and refinement. I realize that the SL-230 has no audiophile pedigree, but it sounds so good with the Green body and 8MZ stylus that I don't really care.

 

[WaynerN]

I wonder why Grado seems relatively uninterested in curing this ailment? They'd certainly sell a lot more cartridges if people weren't worrying about whether or not they'd hum.

I hear ya, but on the other hand, why can't turntable manufacturers do a better job shielding their junk. Fingers can be pointed at several different parties here. While the Grado behaves just as a moving magnet cartridge, it is in fact moving iron. If you're a turntable designer, can you put the transformer in the back, left corner (for DDs)? Why is that so hard to figure out?

Grados also will have a poor time with most belt drives that use 120 volt synchronous motors. VPI's stuff seems to work OK. There is Grado hum database somewhere around here. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...sMu2a67DyLhzE8grJp9mc/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=0

 

[marcmorin]

I think it has a lot to do with the physical layout of the cartridge and the way that the stylus slides into the cartridge body from the bottom. That stylus slot would make it very difficult to design and install a mu-metal shield that worked. Cartridges that load the replaceable stylus from the front, such as Audio-Technica, Shure, Stanton, Pickering, and Empire, are much easier to shield against stray fields from motors and power transformers.

well, no. It has to do with how the cartridge works, and why it can't be shielded and retain how it works. The electrical system depends on magnetomotive force moving the direction of least reluctance instead of the electromotive force moving in the path of least resistance. Putting mumetal around it will create a lower reluctance path than through the coils. That's how mumetal "shields" It just creates an easier path.
I still ask the question of why one could buy a $79.00 TV that has a shielded speaker so not to distort the picture, but turntable manufactures couldn't install a shielded motor and or transformer.

Not to be a smartarse, but all my AT's load from the bottom

 

[majick47]

This isn't a cartridge problem, it's a turntable problem, my Grado cartridges perform excellent with well designed and built turntables. Grado is the last of the USA cartridge mfgs and Grado continues to mfg high quality cartridges that were never intended for the low quality turntables such as the OPs.

 

[Arthur Smith]

This isn't a cartridge problem, it's a turntable problem, my Grado cartridges perform excellent with well designed and built turntables. Grado is the last of the USA cartridge mfgs and Grado continues to mfg high quality cartridges that were never intended for the low quality turntables such as the OPs.

Funny, because my "low quality" turntable sounds great. If you were right, I'd agree with you.

 

[Dr Tinear]

well, no. It has to do with how the cartridge works, and why it can't be shielded and retain how it works. The electrical system depends on magnetomotive force moving the direction of least reluctance instead of the electromotive force moving in the path of least resistance. Putting mumetal around it will create a lower reluctance path than through the coils. That's how mumetal "shields" It just creates an easier path. ...

Many of the Empire cartridges were also moving-iron, if memory serves, and they didn't have hum problems with unshielded turntable drive motors or transformers. Their coil layout was quite different than Grado's, though. Same goes for the Ortofon VMS and Super OM lines and the B&O MMCs, which were also moving-iron and which didn't exhibit hum problems like the Grados do.

 

[marcmorin]

Many of the Empire cartridges were also moving-iron, if memory serves, and they didn't have hum problems with unshielded turntable drive motors or transformers. Their coil layout was quite different than Grado's, though. Same goes for the Ortofon VMS and Super OM lines and the B&O MMCs, which were also moving-iron and which didn't exhibit hum problems like the Grados do.

The others, other than the B&O, are actually induced magnet. The moving iron piece becomes a magnet and they behave just like a MM. The iron piece moves inside of the coils, instead of the push-pull of the magnetic circuit around the coils.(like an electric guitar) Shielding the gap in the Grado where the stylus assembly fit in would probably work. Or just talk the table manufactures, if they are going to use an unshielded AC syncro motor to mount it like PT did so the front of the cart faces the motor field instead of 90deg from the cart.

 

[SSaxdude]

Funny, because my "low quality" turntable sounds great. If you were right, I'd agree with you.

Just ignore him, he's one of AK's infamous group that instantly shouts "junk" whenever a Hanpin turntable is brought up.

Maybe a Grado won't work well on your turntable. So then go with another brand which will work on your turntable. Not being able to use a Grado won't be the end of the world.