Hard Water treatment...a solution?

The solubility of calcium carbonate is described by a thermodynamic property called Ksp (the solubility product). The Ksp of CaCO3 is very small at neutral or alkaline pH (although it is more soluble at very low pH)... the crystal structure can impact the solubility of a compound (e.g., anhydrous magnesium sulfate vs. magnesium sulfate heptahydrate), but the almost complete insolubility of CaCO3 in any form in water of any pH you'd care to drink is just a given.

N.B. The 'bad taste' of softened or distilled water is a well known phenomenon; it has nothing to do with the softening proces per se. That's why most of the bottled water makers add some calcium and/or magnesium salts (which are ever so sparingly soluble, truth be told) back to their water to make it taste "good" or "right". By the way, you probably know that most (though not all) of the bottled waters on the market are just municipal water treated by RODI (reverse osmosis/deionization) to purify and then spiked with trace minerals.
 
For the benefit of the OP, as I have experience of 2 kinds of water softener.

I would not have bought the electronic water softener, if I knew then what I know now, and I would never buy a passive magnet type.

If you are serious about softened water then the ion-exchange (salt) type is definitely the way to go IMO.

The bottom line
Cost of electronic softener ~$400 + cost of electricity, minimal, say 1w
Zero maintenance - until it blows up !

Cost of ion-exchange softener ~$1000 + salt tablets at ~$12 for 25Kg. (1 year=$72)
Periodic changes of Gel - perhaps every 5-10 years (cost unknown).

We use MUCH less soap/shower gel/shampoo now, and have the peace of mind knowing that our heating system is working at maximum efficiency as it doesn't have to get heat through all that scale anymore.

John
 
Re: electromagnetic field softeners: Being a chemist, but more of the environmental/analytical/trace organic pollutant type, rather than inorganics and crystal formation, I can't rule out that an electromagnetic field *could* have a physical effect on crystal formation. The issue is that when water comes out of the tap the salts crystallize on everything. If (a big if) this thing could somehow cause larger crystals to form it *could* affect scaling in the sink for example. There is ample evidence that real life behavior does not always follow the most basic theory because systems are dynamic, not at equilibrium (as Ksp is). I have no knowledge one way or another on this supposed technique. However, if we are talking about minerals interacting with soap in a dissolved phase, it's probably going to happen regardless of the crystal size - the wash cycle is long enough for the mineral/detergent interaction to reach equilibrium in my book. So I can't see how it would work. I would have to experience it for myself to believe it. OTOH, I have experienced resin-softened water, and it is almost unbelievable how different the soap acts in the shower.
 
I can't really believe that this device would/could actually soften water, but if it helps soften existing scale or prevent new build up, then that would still be a plus in my mind.
 
I have a conventional salt softener and a DI system for my car (and vinyl records as it turns out). I'm not sure if it's just my perception, but I when I use the DI the water spots on the black car seem to be worse than when I feed the DI unsoftened water. Does the salt go through the DI system?
 
So this is a non-rechargeable system. The obvious question is, how long since you changed the filter? When the resin is used up, the hardness salts go right through.
 
Looking back at your original question, if I understand correctly, you're saying if you put pre-softened water through this DI system, you get spots worse than if you fed hard water into it. This makes sense because the resin preferentially takes up Ca and Mg rather than sodium. So it has no effect on presoftened water. I think.
 
toxcrusadr said:
So this is a non-rechargeable system. The obvious question is, how long since you changed the filter? When the resin is used up, the hardness salts go right through.
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It's supposed to be good for 300 gallons with my water hardness. Not a lot of water, but it's intended for just the final rinse. It has a digital readout. When it gets to 20 you're supposed to replace or refill the cartridges. Mine's reading 3.
 
Salty water isn't soft. The resin has a positive charge and attracts the contaminants. The salt washes the junk off the resin beads. and renews the resins surface. I sugest two wholehouse 10" water filters. One for catching junk and a charcoal filter for the second one for taste and catch bacteria. I don't really suggest those little RO systems either.

Greg
 
Plumberboy1 said:
Salty water isn't soft.
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Not sure I understand what you're saying here. Do you mean to say soft water isn't salty? I think it was stated above somewhere that the amount of salt (NaCl) introduced by the softener is minor so indeed the water would not be 'salty' tasting. Or am I to totally misunderstanding your statement?

The resin has a positive charge and attracts the contaminants. The salt washes the junk off the resin beads. and renews the resins surface.
Click to expand...

The resin has to have a negative charge to attract Ca++ and Mg++.

I sugest two wholehouse 10" water filters. One for catching junk and a charcoal filter for the second one for taste and catch bacteria. I don't really suggest those little RO systems either.
Click to expand...

I agree on the carbon! Our water has so much chlorine that it really improves the flavor. And anybody whose water is from a river or lake, should have one. Otherwise you may be drinking a whole cocktail of trace organic contaminants, from pesticides to drugs, that are either below accepted safety levels individually, or...not regulated. :scratch2: Course it depends on where you are. YMMV.
 
We have a whole house Rain Soft Water Softening System and have been pleased with it. It holds 200 lbs of salt. I fill it up about 3 times/year. It is electronic/digital, and beeps a warning signal when it is time to refill.

My only complaint, and I'm not sure what causes this, about once/quarter, our water will taste salty all of the sudden. You have to turn on the cold water faucet and run it for 5 mins or so until the salt taste is gone. Also must dump the ice tray when that happens. I've been told that is not uncommon on one of these whole house systems, but I wish I knew how to prevent it.

JD
 
Hi,
Yes, Soft water is not salty. I do stand corrected as the resin bed is indeed negative. The water softener is an ion exchanger. I had to go back to a training manual that I have from when I worked at Purdue. When I worked there, I was responsible for keeping several commercial water softeners and 5 commercial reverse osmosis units running. Pretty much al I do now is unstop drains here at ASU. My memmory is not very good anymore.

Greg
 
In theory, a magnetic system could be built to soften water, as there are wastewater treatments systems in use today that use magnets. However, these systems use very strong magnets (well above 10,000 gauss), making them VERY expensive to operate (electrical costs). You also must provide a nucleating substrate (usually granular magnetite) for the suspended solids to adhere to. Simply not practical for home usage.

The low-powered magnetic systems advertised for home water softening might pull out a little iron (doubtful), but will do nothing for dissolved manganese or calcium.
 
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