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has anyone tried a new JICO Empire 4000 DIII stylus?

The RM-50 uses the same style styli as the "chunky" cartridges so this JICO one or others like it (4000 series, 2000 series) will not fit it.

Doug
 
Well duh, you said the original was purple and I just spaced it. Anyway, I would try the WD-40 miracle cure :D. Can't hurt.

Doug
 
OK, that's a higher inductance body then. About the same as the 2000 series. My later 2000 E/III is 1030 and 1050.

So that clear stylus is right for it.

Doug
 
Exactly. Regardless of whether MacNoob's 4000XLIII is typical or not, the S912E is wrong for it, and flat response will be obtained with the 2000E/I, II or III stylus.

For what it's worth, in my photo archives is a photo of a 4000XLI, with a note saying it was 520 ohms, 350mH. Could the III have been a later addition, like the 2000E/IV?
 
bossmustang7 said:
Have a dumb question;any chance of it fitting on an RM-50?
Click to expand...
Odd that you should ask. Not the later style illustrated here with the flip-down stylus guard, no, but the earlier style without the flipper, yes. It can be a tight fit, in my experience. Don't force anything. This is assuming you can even find an earlier-style 4000D stylus. You might have better luck with the 440D stylus, which I've only seen in the earlier form.

The RM-50 is a 350mH body, and the original 4000D styli are meant for a body down around 250mH, but for stereo use this is close enough.
 
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And that's the stylus TTN.com's database says it should have. This is one of those "huh! dunno!" situations. Your cartridge body could be yet another outlier. All it would take is for a 2000E body to fall into the bin of 4000 XL IIIs and get printed with the wrong model number. I have at least one outlier for nearly every major cartridge manufacturer. I think that odd 2000E/III Doug has is another one. He's got your 4000 XL III! You guys should swap!

Consider it an opportunity to do some interesting tweaking. In the meantime, we should watch out for other people who have the cart and ask them to measure theirs.
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the tip on that JICO 4000D III stylus looks quite different from the real one's I've seen pics of


the real ones taper a lot on the end, and do not have that U shaped profile at the tip
 
I think the Empire engineers/employees were sadists.

Be that as it may, yes the original 4000D and 440D styli have a long, thin, elegant cantilever to allow for low effective mass. Whether JICO compensated for not having that feature in another way, I don't know.

The real test would be to get one and try it on CD-4 records and if it tracks them OK, there you have it. Good for everything.

Doug
 
ps the Jico 4000 D III stylus sounds good on my 2000 E III body

much less output than the Nagaoka E2000 III stylus, but very similar output to the Soundsmith Boheme on the 698 table ( I have the 2000 E on a 598 )

how do I measure the inductance of my 2000 E cart? I am curious about the match


thanks!! :thmbsp:
 
If you have an inductance function on your meter, just measure between the positive and negative of each channel.

If you don't have an inductance function, just measure the resistance between the same points and we will be able to tell the inductance from that.

Doug
 
wualta said:
Odd that you should ask. Not the later style illustrated here with the flip-down stylus guard, no, but the earlier style without the flipper, yes. It can be a tight fit, in my experience. Don't force anything. This is assuming you can even find an earlier-style 4000D stylus. You might have better luck with the 440D stylus, which I've only seen in the earlier form.

The RM-50 is a 350mH body, and the original 4000D styli are meant for a body down around 250mH, but for stereo use this is close enough.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. I thought that, because the metal shank sticks out so much farther than the plastic one on the chunky styli, it wouldn't insert far enough.

On the other hand, I do remember conversation to the effect that a 2000 type stylus would work in a chunky body but I guess I forgot to remember. :D

Doug
 
If the JICO stylus sounds good in the "wrong" body, I wouldn't be surprised, as I've said elsewhere-- JICO would be economically well-advised to voice even their "4000D" styli for the far more common 2000E bodies. Run with it and don't look back.

As for measuring cartridge bodies, what Doug G said. If you want a suitable meter for doing direct measurements yourself, some of us rely heavily on cheap Chinese inductance-capacitance-resistance (LCR) meters, such as this OYM6243L from eBay:
LCR meter OYM6243La.jpg
Should be able to get it for less than $20 shipped. Works great for cartridges on the 2H setting and for audio and video cabling capacitance checks on the 2000P setting. When/if you get this model, the 9v battery is already installed, but the contacts might have gotten squashed flat by jigglement during shipping, so if the meter doesn't work or displays 1.666 then winks out, gently bend the battery terminals back to their original springiness.

Interesting note on the Nagaoka stylus. Where did you get it?
Doug G said:
...I thought that, because the metal shank sticks out so much farther than the plastic one on the chunky styli, it wouldn't insert far enough. On the other hand, I do remember conversation to the effect that a 2000 type stylus would work in a chunky body...
Click to expand...
I wouldn't recommend this as an everyday swap. Tolerances could easily line up such that insertion would be impossible, but it works. I've done this and there are photos on the interwebb of others frankencarting it up. Just know that there's a risk involved-- might be so tight you couldn't get it out again.
 
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I'll just leave the S400TC stylus in my OP4 cartridge then. It happens to be in rotation right now playing Tomita's "Planets"

:D

Doug
 
I bought a 4237-DET (JICO-made S2000E/III) stylus from the stereoneedleslady, ostensibly to try out in a 4000D body to dig the brightness, but also, when I noticed it was made in Empire's older grip style, to see how well I could get it to fit a 'Chunky' body, an LTD 200 in this case. It fits! It's tight, and at first the outer edges of the 4237 fouled the 200 E's mounting cap, but you can bend the grip's 'wings' in just a tiny bit, and they'll clear, which will let the 4237 go all the way in.

I wouldn't do this to a cart body that's already mounted, since enough force has to be applied that the body might slide in the headshell just enough to undo a carefully-done alignment job. Not enough force to damage a healthy stylus or mounting cap, though.
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I just bought a Technics 1301 with an Empire EDR .7 cartridge. The stylus is shot according to the extremely cool dude at Warbler Records in Santa Barbara. He is trying to help me locate a new stylus for this cartridge. Any advice or leads would be appreciated. I bought my first TT in 30 years about a week ago after mom gave me 2 crates of vinyl. I've stumbled upon a new (or not so new) culture. Vintage.
 
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