Heavier=better??

R

Riccardo77

Active Member
Hi, relatively new still to this awesome forum and have a question:

I have a Marantz SR-53 40 WPC running with JBL D38 in a relatively small room. The speakers have a 92Db sensitivity. This receiver feels very light and weighs about 15lbs and is 2 channel. I paid 40 for this receiver last year. The sound seems good except sometimes I have to turn it louder to get the heavier bass to come through or I need to turn up the bass knob.

Right now I am being tempted by a listing for a 2 channel NEC R-510 online for $50 (likely I can bargain for less). The data I found online says it is 50WPC and weighs almost 24lbs which seems like quite a bit for a 2 channel receiver at that wattage. Not knowing but being intrigued by the brand and what other NEC lovers on this board have said about the NEC sound, would this receiver with its much heavier weight be able to deliver the bass at lower volumes?

Should I be looking for even higher wattage?

In general, do you find heavier stereo receivers sound better with heavier power transformers?

Many thanks for your help?
 
Register to hide this ad
At face value 50W is practically no change from 40W in terms of "crankability". Unless one of the amps is way over rated or way under rated, you probably wouldn't even notice a difference in maximum output or more "thump" between those two.

All other things equal, bear in mind 2x more power makes a 3dB increase which is just a little louder. It takes 10x more power (10dB increase) to seem about twice as loud.
 
In general, talking about old solid state, I tend to agree that heavier is better... That doesn't mean that every heavy amp will sound better than all the lighter weight amps around.

40 to 50 watts is not too different in terms of power and perceived loudness (I'd consider 40 and 50 almost the same). If you want to try a Nec amp I'd think "why not?". The nec amps I've seen (just 2) were built to the best quality standards, everything inside was 1st quality. I'd definitely buy a Nec amp if I had a chance.

At low listening levels we don't hear the low freqs so well, that's why the "loudness" button exists in many amps, to compensate this.
 
Riccardo77 said:
Hi, relatively new still to this awesome forum and have a question:

I have a Marantz SR-53 40 WPC running with JBL D38 in a relatively small room. The speakers have a 92Db sensitivity. This receiver feels very light and weighs about 15lbs and is 2 channel. I paid 40 for this receiver last year. The sound seems good except sometimes I have to turn it louder to get the heavier bass to come through or I need to turn up the bass knob.

Right now I am being tempted by a listing for a 2 channel NEC R-510 online for $50 (likely I can bargain for less). The data I found online says it is 50WPC and weighs almost 24lbs which seems like quite a bit for a 2 channel receiver at that wattage. Not knowing but being intrigued by the brand and what other NEC lovers on this board have said about the NEC sound, would this receiver with its much heavier weight be able to deliver the bass at lower volumes?

Should I be looking for even higher wattage?

In general, do you find heavier stereo receivers sound better with heavier power transformers?

Many thanks for your help?
Click to expand...


A 3dB change in perceived loudness requires a doubling (or halving) of power. 3dB = the smallest change in loudness which can be readily discerned by a person with normal hearing. The difference in loudness between 40 and 50 watts is therefore very small. Of course, there may be other differences...for example, linearity, tonal qualities, etc.

Recognize also that most of the power is for transient peaks in the music. Good recordings have a crest factor (the difference between average and peak loudness of the recording) of 12dB or more...sometimes much more.

So let's say that you are listening at an average level of 90dB, measured 12 feet from the speakers (which is very loud). I would estimate that in a normal room, this would require only 3-4 watts with your speakers. But to handle 12dB peaks without clipping the signal, your amp would need to be capable of 48-64 watts. For a crest factor of 15db, double that again.

Bottom line, unless you are wanting to listen at near-concert levels (assuming your speakers can even handle that kind of power), 40-60 watts will most likely meet your needs. If you want to step up in power, I would advise at least doubling up...otherwise, you are not going to get much of a difference in noticeable output capability.

There are some folks who believe that higher powered amps perform better even when played at lower volumes. I am not one of them.
 
Last edited:
Either listen to it and decide, or have it measured to see if it's competent, or research for listed specs. Going by weight alone doesn't get you much.
 
It's not just how many watts. It's how many watts can it supply over time "and" on demand. Some music is very demanding on an amp and some is not. If you need to turn up the base you are probable running out of steam at the volume you want. And there's a lot more to it than that. RMS watt's, peak watts, current, ohm load capability...........it's complicated.
I find 80 good 8 ohm watts from a 4 ohm capable amp to be a handy number with most speakers. I'm thinking you could use more watts.
 
What about amps?
The Marantz says 1.5A but doesn't show wattage

The NEC does not show amps but shows 350 watts. Is it fair to divide 350 watts by 120V to get just under 3 amps? So the NEC has almost double the current? Or is this too simplistic?
 
If you asked me to explain it you would be asking the wrong guy. I just settled in at about 80 watts.
 
quiet said:
It's not just how many watts. It's how many watts can it supply over time "and" on demand. Some music is very demanding on an amp and some is not. If you need to turn up the base you are probable running out of steam at the volume you want. And there's a lot more to it than that. RMS watt's, peak watts, current, ohm load capability...........it's complicated.
I find 80 good 8 ohm watts from a 4 ohm capable amp to be a handy number with most speakers. I'm thinking you could use more watts.
Click to expand...

Those JBL's are down by 6dB at 50Hz. I would suggest that power is not the issue in the OP's quest for more bass.
 
I'm not exited about the speakers, but if there's gonna be an amp change it might as well be to one with more capabilities that will accommodate more speakers in the end.
 
spark1 said:
Those JBL's are down by 6dB at 50Hz. I would suggest that power is not the issue in the OP's quest for more bass.
Click to expand...
Perhaps a cap tweak for the woofer? over-all speaker minor servicing x-over? new speaker mounting seals?
Not baiting you... you seem to know this model speaker.
 
Last edited:
Riccardo77 said:
What about amps?
The Marantz says 1.5A but doesn't show wattage

The NEC does not show amps but shows 350 watts. Is it fair to divide 350 watts by 120V to get just under 3 amps? So the NEC has almost double the current? Or is this too simplistic?
Click to expand...

If you want a simple rule of thumb for evaluating an amplifier's ability to deliver current, first look at its speaker impedance rating. Just about any receiver is rated to handle an 8 ohm load. Fewer are rated to handle a (more difficult) 4 ohm load. Almost no receivers or integrated amps are rated to handle below that. When you get into the realm of very difficult loads (speakers with dips down into the low 3 ohm or even 2 ohm territory, to keep it simple), separate power amps are generally the only answer.

Next, look at RMS wattage ratings...specifically, the difference between rated output at 8 ohms and 4 ohms. In receivers, a very good relationship would be 50% (in other words, if rated wattage at 8 ohms is 50, the 4 ohm rating would be 75). This indicates a decent power supply.

Normal would be 25%. Weak would be anything less. BTW, ideal = 100%...but this is not really possible in the real world, by and large...and certainly not in a receiver.
 
Speakers have sentimental value and sound way better than they have any business sounding based on their build quality.

I also tried JBL s26ii and Paradigm Phantom V1.
These also require the bass to be turned up about 2 notches on the receiver. Thanks for all of your helpful comments.
 
spark1 said:
If you want a simple rule of thumb for evaluating an amplifier's ability to deliver current, first look at its speaker impedance rating. Just about any receiver is rated to handle an 8 ohm load. Fewer are rated to handle a (more difficult) 4 ohm load. Almost no receivers or integrated amps are rated to handle below that. When you get into the realm of very difficult loads (speakers with dips down into the low 3 ohm or even 2 ohm territory, to keep it simple), separate power amps are generally the only answer.

Next, look at RMS wattage ratings...specifically, the difference between rated output at 8 ohms and 4 ohms. In receivers, a very good relationship would be 50% (in other words, if rated wattage at 8 ohms is 50, the 4 ohm rating would be 75). This indicates a decent power supply.

Normal would be 25%. Weak would be anything less. BTW, ideal = 100%...but this is not really possible in the real world, by and large...and certainly not in a receiver.
Click to expand...

Receiver says no lower than 8ohms for speaker set A and no lower than 16ohm when using A and B together.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom