Help, Archival Cassette Deck Recommendations Please!

[MusikPeddler]

TL;DR : I need a cassette deck to digitize church sermons/services ranging from recordings done from the late 40's through 90's. There's probably at least 300 tapes or so (massive undertaking heh). I currently have a donated Pioneer CT-W505R and would like to use something better for the long run. Also please excuse any amateur understanding, I've tried my best researching for the better part of 2 months on all this.

Continued Reading/Details: I've been bit by the analog bug and am an archivist at heart. I saw an opportunity to digitize and restore some cassette tapes and vinyl records and took up the challenge. I'm starting with the cassette tapes as some of the recording on them are more interesting/important/historical. I took a sampling of tapes across the decades labeled on them and played them on the deck mentioned above (only one I have at the moment). The recordings are all over the board. Some sound like they're from a portable recorder on a pew (think of recording a symphony on your phone from your seat), others are a direct feed from the pulpit, and I've been told others are from a massive metal record plate thing resembling a giant metal vinyl master for pressings (see attached picture). There's some peaking and noise. In other words, none of these tapes I've come across have been professionally recorded or monitored during their recording. Also, the tape quality ranges from cheap white ones to Maxwell and TDK tapes (see attached picture). There were no metal tapes that I could find digging through the lot.

My simple workflow is hooking up the Pioneer CT-W505R line out to my Tascam DR-600MKII via RCA to 3.5mm jack and recording in WAV 24bit @ 96k (the max) on the SD Card. I then take the recordings on said SD Card and edit them on my computer using the iZotope RX 10 Advanced audio software to clean them up.

I've been to various vintage audio stores/repair shops and have been told to get a Nakamichi 700 by one and Pioneer CT-F500 by another. As you can see, two very different price points and opinions. So I come to you all for more opinions, haha.

I wish I could say money isn't an option but, at the end of the day I have to justify the purchase knowing that these are not Hansa studio recording by any means. Feel free to change my mind though!

My hopes is to find an easily serviceable deck that will last during the project, as well as giving the "rawest, most natural" amount of audio information suitable to the recordings since I will be post processing these.

P.S. I am a Junior in college studying mechatronics, so I don't mind getting into the nitty gritty if necessary. I also have knowledge in photography and video (as far as the digital age goes) so, any illustrations with that mindset would help greatly (i.e. RAW files are the equivalent to losses audio in the photo world).

Thank you for reading and investing/passing down the knowledge to future generations to enjoy and learn!!!

 

[vwestlife]

What's wrong with the Pioneer deck you've been using? It's more than good enough for playing recordings of sermons. My recommendation if you want to eliminate the need for the SD card recorder as an intermediate step, would be to get a TASCAM 202mkVII or TEAC W-1200 deck, which have a USB output so you can connect it directly to your computer, and they have Dynamic Noise Reduction (DNR), which helps to reduce hiss even on tapes that were not recorded with Dolby NR.

 

[MusikPeddler]

What's wrong with the Pioneer deck you've been using? It's more than good enough for playing recordings of sermons. My recommendation if you want to eliminate the need for the SD card recorder as an intermediate step, would be to get a TASCAM 202mkVII or TEAC W-1200 deck, which have a USB output so you can connect it directly to your computer, and they have Dynamic Noise Reduction (DNR), which helps to reduce hiss even on tapes that were not recorded with Dolby NR.

Thank you for your quick response and thoughts!

The item of concern is the lifespan and durability of the deck, I'd like for all of these conversions to be as consistent as possible, having the same deck used on all of them. I've read that the particular belts it takes are hard to come by. "This unit has flat belts that are expensive to source and therefore a broken unit that needs a full service will not be worth much." - https://www.petervis.com/tape-decks/pioneer-ct-w505r/pioneer-ct-w505r.html It's also has some slightly worrisome mechanical noises and probably has never been serviced.

Is it worth servicing or just go for a "new" deck? I was under the impression that anything from the late 90's to now in the cassette deck world "wasn't made like they used to". Also thought that dual decks were considered "lower quality", for a lack of better words, than a single dedicated one.

I like the idea of the DNS and other aids as far as pre-processing (less time spent on my end, great!), but to me it seems comparable to "in camera de-noising", loosing information and definition/sharpness for something I can just do in post with better refinement and control.

 

[oldvinyldude]

I agree with vwestlife-given the modest to lousy recording quality, what you have is fine. All one would need is a solidly working 2 head deck. The Tascam and Teac mentions would speed up the workflow. A less expensive option that would allow analogue to digital input to your computer program is a modest device like Behringer UFO202.
Again, most of your post recording editing will be to help bring poor recordings to more listenable quality, and you will not likely surpass the capabilities of your existing deck and a device like the Behringer unit. Collage students need to watch the $$'s

PS-nice to see a younger person take up analogue audio interests-Welcome to AK

 

[radiokom]

Cassette tapes from the late 40's?

Now I know all those stories about secret alien technologies are true!

You need azimuth adjustment anyway. Nakamichi CR7 is not in your price range I believe. I advise to get serviced Nakamichi Lx-3 or 480 two head deck. It is classic transport closed loop dual capstan deck with easy adjustable azimuth with screwdriver and what does not wear out because of nylon screw. Head is good. But with "serviced" I mean disassembled, relubricated and then reassembled transport including pinch roller arms reassembled with gauge and orange polypropylene capacitors replaced.

 

[MusikPeddler]

I agree with vwestlife-given the modest to lousy recording quality, what you have is fine. All one would need is a solidly working 2 head deck. The Tascam and Teac mentions would speed up the workflow. A less expensive option that would allow analogue to digital input to your computer program is a modest device like Behringer UFO202.
Again, most of your post recording editing will be to help bring poor recordings to more listenable quality, and you will not likely surpass the capabilities of your existing deck and a device like the Behringer unit. Collage students need to watch the $$'s

PS-nice to see a younger person take up analogue audio interests-Welcome to AK

Oh, I just saw that Behringer in the local classifieds!

Thanks for the input, encouragement, and welcome. Fortunately the people who I'm doing this for are willing to foot the bill, but not trying to stretch it and take advantage.

 

[MusikPeddler]

Cassette tapes from the late 40's?

Now I know all those stories about secret alien technologies are true!

You need azimuth adjustment anyway. Nakamichi CR7 is not in your price range I believe. I advise to get serviced Nakamichi Lx-3 or 480 two head deck. It is classic transport closed loop dual capstan deck with easy adjustable azimuth with screwdriver and what does not wear out because of nylon screw. Head is good. But with "serviced" I mean disassembled, relubricated and then reassembled transport including pinch roller arms reassembled with gauge and orange polypropylene capacitors replaced.

Thank you for the recommendations.

Aha, knew the "late 40's" detail would be strange. I was told they were made by ripping them off that huge bronze disk. I know this is a tape thread, but I had never seen one or heard anyone talk about it on the internet and sure would like to know more about it.

Are there any desirable benefits of the Lx-3 over the 480? The 480 seems a bit more tangible money wise, but I'm curious and want to learn as much as possible.

Going a bit off tangent, but how often should the azimuth be checked? Same question for the de-maging of heads. Can I get away with the built in azimuth corrector in post (pic attached)? (I imagine I'd first get the deck serviced to fix azimuth at the source, post correction would be just to reduce having to adjust it as much.)

 

[radiokom]

Thank you for the recommendations.

Aha, knew the "late 40's" detail would be strange. I was told they were made by ripping them off that huge bronze disk. I know this is a tape thread, but I had never seen one or heard anyone talk about it on the internet and sure would like to know more about it.

Are there any desirable benefits of the Lx-3 over the 480? The 480 seems a bit more tangible money wise, but I'm curious and want to learn as much as possible.

Going a bit off tangent, but how often should the azimuth be checked? Same question for the de-maging of heads. Can I get away with the built in azimuth corrector in post (pic attached)? (I imagine I'd first get the deck serviced to fix azimuth at the source, post correction would be just to reduce having to adjust it as much.)
View attachment 2806521

Well, azimuth can be checked by switching to mono and hearing on earphones for maximum high frequency and looking on phase spectrum display of, for example, Adobe audition. If your tapes are mono, you can adjust azimuth in phase spectrum display very simple even without headphones.

You need do demagnetize head at least once when you receive deck. Cassette deck does not need head demagnetization before particular session, but anyway it is a good idea to do it 1x per year.

LX-3 and 480 sound is about the same, LX-3 is logic control. I have both with removed erase heads and disconnected record circuit. They are OK, however for most demanding transfers I use CR7.

I believe you are talking about 78rpm transcription records (what should be played with common spherical tip, not 78rpm (!)).

P.S. But if you are in US and decide to get LX-3 or 480 better communicate with Tapetech (member here too), Perry or Nakmandan at tapeheads.net first because there is high possibility you will get "serviced" deck with damaged transport if you buy from unknown seller.

 

[MusikPeddler]

Well, azimuth can be checked by switching to mono and hearing on earphones for maximum high frequency and looking on phase spectrum display of, for example, Adobe audition. If your tapes are mono, you can adjust azimuth in phase spectrum display very simple even without headphones.

You need do demagnetize head at least once when you receive deck. Cassette deck does not need head demagnetization before particular session, but anyway it is a good idea to do it 1x per year.

LX-3 and 480 sound is about the same, LX-3 is logic control. I have both with removed erase heads and disconnected record circuit. They are OK, however for most demanding transfers I use CR7.

I believe you are talking about 78rpm transcription records (what should be played with common spherical tip, not 78rpm (!)).

P.S. But if you are in US and decide to get LX-3 or 480 better communicate with Tapetech (member here too), Perry or Nakmandan at tapeheads.net first because there is high possibility you will get "serviced" deck with damaged transport if you buy from unknown seller.

Didn't realize demagnetization was so infrequent, was thinking it was more on the "after 20 tapes" idea like an oil change for a car ahah.

Thank you for the info and connections!

 

[vwestlife]

The heads, capstan, and pinch roller should be cleaned after every 20 hours of use, or even more often if you're playing old tapes that are leaving behind oxide residue.

I've never had demagnetizing the heads make an audible difference in how a cassette deck sounds. A two-head deck self-demagnetizes its record/playback head whenever you record, due to the AC bias current passing through it.

 

[Sgt Shultz]

Didn't realize demagnetization was so infrequent, was thinking it was more on the "after 20 tapes" idea like an oil change for a car ahah.

Thank you for the info and connections!

I've had many decks, Pioneer, Carver, Nakamichi, Teac, etc etc, including the LX-3, great decks. As you're only using the deck to play 2 head decks will suffice.

That said, the 3head Tascam 122 was the studio standard and it's built like a tank. It also makes outstanding tapes, and sounds fantastic. Tascam is the pro division of Teac, as such the Teac C-3RX is identical to the Tascam 122B other than not having the XLR inputs and outputs for pro use. So if you find either at the price you want this would be my recommendation.

 

[WernerO]

recording in WAV 24bit @ 96k (the max) on the SD Card

Given the limited quality of the source material there is absolutely no justification for recording at such a high resolution. CD-standard 44.1kHz/16 bit will be plenty.

told to get a Nakamichi 700 by one and Pioneer CT-F500 by another.

Both are not recommended. Both are very old. The Nak 700 is almost impossible to maintain or repair these days (if you find someone willing to take the job at all). The Pioneer has no redeeming features.

You need a fairly modern, just-restored/refurbished single capstan two-head machine. Play trim (a pre-Dolby variable treble equaliser that can be used to make up for some losses) would be a plus, although you can do more even in post (using, indeed, iZotrope, or Anaxwaves DDi, or whatever).

I would look at Technics RS-B555/565/655/665. These are good-sounding, simple direct-drive (!) decks that keep going once a particular gear has been replaced (gears are available). Also interesting would be a basic Yamaha (play trim!), or even some NADs.

I advise to get serviced Nakamichi Lx-3 or 480 two head deck. It is classic transport closed loop dual capstan deck with easy adjustable azimuth with screwdriver

The cassettes being in a questionable state a dual capstan mechanism has to be advised against. Dual capstan is harder on the tape, and when things go wrong, they will go terribly wrong.

There is, however, one case where a Nakamichi dual capstan would be useful: cassettes with lost or damaged pressure pad. But these tapes could also be transplanted to a new shell.

Going a bit off tangent, but how often should the azimuth be checked?

Azimuth should be adjusted to each cassette individually. But as your source material is unlikely to contain much treble this seems not too important in this case.

Can I get away with the built in azimuth corrector in post (pic attached)?

Azimuth error plays in the physical domain, and any information lost is lost forever, no post-processing will compensate for that. But again, I don't think it will feature in your case. And if you find a bunch of cassettes that sound dull no matter what you do, keep them until the end, then try to adjust azimuth to each of them. Any deck will allow to change azimuth with a small (demagnetised!) screwdriver, but ultimately (after tens, hundreds of actions?) this may strip the screw and leave your deck defective. Switch to mono, use headphones, and listen for maximal treble content and a solid center image.

As the tapes may be dirty you want to clean the tape path for every transfer. Demagnetising is not often necessary, but you have to do it, of course, before suing a deck with unknown provenance.

 

[radiokom]

but ultimately (after tens, hundreds of actions?) this may strip the screw and leave your deck defective.

This is one reason why I advise Nakamichi - nylon long lasting screws for adjustment.

24bit is always better, sample rate is not so important. 24bit is 256 times more precise than 16bit. And why not to use 48khz instead 44.1 even if it is not necessary? Now we have no storage space problems. It is broadcast standard rate. I commonly use 48khz24bit and always record in wave format. 96 khz or more you can use "because you can", but it will not improve anything. Azimuth adjustment is important even on cassettes with no more 5khz recorded. Because it is clearly audible. If tape is mono it is very simple to reproduce it in stereo, adjust azimuth in phase spectral display, digitize and then mix back to mono. If amateur 2 channel "stereo" recording with 2 microphones sometimes only way is to adjust nominal azimuth with test cassette, digitize and then apply digital phase correction (in Audobe audition for example), because it is simply impossible to see/hear difference. It will not adjust azimuth, but repairs phase error what is one problem of incorrectly adjusted azimuth. Dual capstan is more precise and maintains constant tension because of controlled tape slipping at one capstan. It is not harder on tape. But it should be perfect of course otherwise you can get tape skewing. If it is adjusted well things will not go wrong. Unique (or dry with scrape flutter) cassettes I wind out and reproduce on Studer A80QC, but it is another story. Erase head (if 2 head deck) and erase and record head (if 3 head discrete head deck, like Nakamichi) can be removed to eliminate scrape flutter. And pad lifter is very important for scrape flutter reduction and can be used only in dual capstan decks.

P.S. Here is Nakamichi 480 head block (the same as 480) without erase head:

:

 

[vwestlife]

In the mid-2000s you could buy a cassette player that fit directly into the drive bay of a desktop PC, and its quality is actually surprisingly good -- especially when using DDi Codec to add software-based Dolby B and C Noise Reduction decoding and chrome/metal tape equalization to it:

 

[Late Boomer]

Azimuth should be adjusted to each cassette individually.

Kinda throws the whole idea of interchangeable media and playback devices under a bus, doesn't it? It follows that compact cassette was not a "plug-and-play" format that it was advertised to be.

Normally, one would adjust azimuth once in a while using a test tape, and then hope that all other tapes are recorded to spec. I understand that these are archival records, but I don't think that their value is so high and their quality is so great that a deck should be adjusted for each and every cassette.

My simple workflow is hooking up the Pioneer CT-W505R line out to my Tascam DR-600MKII via RCA to 3.5mm jack and recording in WAV 24bit @ 96k (the max) on the SD Card. I then take the recordings on said SD Card and edit them on my computer using the iZotope RX 10 Advanced audio software to clean them up.

This is more than enough. In fact, I would dump these recording into 320 Kbps MP3 or WMA at most, there is nothing worthy even Redbook quality about them, considering that many of them have been dubbed off 78-rpm records. Better digital format will only preserve better quality hiss.

Just make sure that your deck does not wobble too much, fixing wow and flutter issues in post is almost impossible.

 

[Tinman]

A Tascam 122, or 122MKII, or a teac C-3X are incredibly durable decks. The C-3X is basically a Tascam 122 without XLR out, but these decks are made for studio use and 24/7 run.
Here's my own 122MKII in my digitizing setup. Mind you, all of them will likely need a service, but they are absolute TANKS!!!

In the pic I am digitizing someone's wedding music to the DA-3000. The setup allows switching to any device from any device. Pretty compact setup, all stuck in a reel to reel cart.

 

[NH-MAN]

Buy a local used dual tape deck, most were hardly/ if ever used, then you have a built in spare and can keep on working. With the material you have I don't feel you need anything more than that to play back far from quality recordings.

 

[radiokom]

I now have digitizing project from 70s and 80s cassettes. Speech, mono, no more than 8khz. BUT some cassettes has azimuth error more than 30 link minutes (!) and on CR7 azimuth knob is turned to end, but there is still error. And you can hear it well. I really can not imagine who aligned recorders on what these recordings are made, but it is fact. So LX-3 allow you to adjust azimuth without limits. Few Ampex cassettes was possible to digitize only on Studer A80QC with all rotating guides, because Ampex tape sticking to guides, shell etc. It is not SSS, but similar problem. In this case if you have no A80QC you should modify one cassette shell by cutting all parts where tape became in contact with shell, replace Ampex tape in this modified shell and try to reproduce on modified dual capstan deck deck with only reproduce head left like LX-3.

 

[Tinman]

Yes, digitizing old crap has it's challenges. I am often astonished by just how BAD some recordings are, and sometimes absolutely blown away with just how GOOD some are. The only thing is to always make the customer well aware of limitations based on what they bring you. No one can do miracles.
Most people wait or have waited too long, their tapes being in some cases beyond recovery. This is more common in Video, though.

 

[radiokom]

Yes, digitizing old crap has it's challenges

Yes, for old crap this machine sometimes is last chance. If all else fails A80QC is solution. And it worked for me 100% on all crap (and good records of course ) within 16 years.
This particular is former EMI Electrola in Holland machine. I have 2.