Highly regarded cartridges that haven't lived up to expectation

[mjw21a]

Ok, so I've a few low output moving iron cartridges which have simply never lived up to expectation. A Grade Statement Master 1, Pickering XLZ7500S and a Stanton 785LZE.

I find them smooth, and lacking in body. The meat I expect from an MI.

Now one thing which may be affecting this is that I'd tried each using SUT (Cinemag 1254, Hashimoto HM-7, Fidelity Research FRT-4) as I've always found with LOMC SUT greatly outperform using higher gain on a phono stage.

Now I've spoken to another member here and he's mentioned that the Grado Statement sounds better straight into an SS phono and rubbish when he tried it with a SUT. I'm wondering whether these carts simply prefer SS amplification.

Thoughts?

 

[marcmorin]

I question why running a low output, very low inductance cartridge, into a device that adds a buttload of inductance into the circuit. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of low inductance.
impedance in a circuit goes up with frequency as a function of inductance. The higher the inductance, the faster the rise in impedance with a rise in frequency. Low inductance is the only electrical advantage a MC has over a MM. Run 'em into 52db gain. My low-out grados certainly don't lack "body". My DB 8HG is 52db gain, 10K input load

 

[vwestlife]

The Ortofon 2M Red. Everyone loves the way it looks, but to my ears it's too bright and sizzly and has too much inner groove distortion to live up to the hype. Also, for what is supposed to be a "budget" cartridge, the replacement styli for it are expensive (since you're paying for all that fancy-looking transparent plastic).

Also, when I finally got a "Calibration Standard" Stanton 681EEE, it was kinda "meh". It sounds fine, but really not that much better than its less pricey "consumer-grade" cousin, the Pickering XV-15.

 

[Mister Pig]

Highly regarded cartridges that I haven't liked. I have been fortunate to own many different cartridges, and have found something to enjoy about a bunch of them.

The ones I have not truly cared for are

Grado The Reference

Grado The Master

Grado Platinum.

Just do not care for any of the Grado wood bodies, and don't plan on owning any more of them. Actually now that I think of it, I have owned a Grado Black, and have a friend who has a Gold. Don't like them either.

Also have owned two Koetsu Urushi, and not cared for them either.

Cartridges I have chosen to keep have come from ZYX and Ortofon. Also enjoy the Transfiguration cartridges, and would love to own another one.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[bimasta]

I'd add Shures to the growing list. I had three variations of the V15 V, and NOS IV, and find them dull and flat (I don't mean their celebrated flat frequency response). I vastly preferred the Grace F9. The only Shure I liked was the old Ultra 400; I bought it when it was new. Loved it, but after a few plays, the stylus fell out. I hadn't even cleaned it yet, it just fell out. A bad bond at the factory I guess; that kind of defect, and their sound, simply turned me off Shures.

I found an old, obscure Shure last year I did like, 'Royal/Shure RM900E'. It had what my other Shures did not: vitality, sparkle, life. But I only played it briefly, that first impression may change.

I agree with Vwestlife. I had the 2m Red for a few days, didn't like it at all.

@marcmorin — The 52dB gain of your DB phono was a custom upgrade, correct? Was the 10K loading also such an upgrade, or an external plug-in? I have the full-function DB1A/2A; I believe the phono section is the same as the DB8: is that correct?

I hope this thread grows. All subjective of course, but still valuable.

 

[marcmorin]

I'd add Shures to the growing list. I had three variations of the V15 V, and NOS IV, and find them dull and flat (I don't mean their celebrated flat frequency response). I vastly preferred the Grace F9. The only Shure I liked was the old Ultra 400; I bought it when it was new. Loved it, but after a few plays, the stylus fell out. I hadn't even cleaned it yet, it just fell out. A bad bond at the factory I guess; that kind of defect, and their sound, simply turned me off Shures.

I found an old, obscure Shure last year I did like, 'Royal/Shure RM900E'. It had what my other Shures did not: vitality, sparkle, life. But I only played it briefly, that first impression may change.

I agree with Vwestlife. I had the 2m Red for a few days, didn't like it at all.

@marcmorin — The 52dB gain of your DB phono was a custom upgrade, correct? Was the 10K loading also such an upgrade, or an external plug-in? I have the full-function DB1A/2A; I believe the phono section is the same as the DB8: is that correct?

I hope this thread grows. All subjective of course, but still valuable.

Hi, the DB8 is the same phono section in your DB1A 37db-47K. The DB8-HG is 52db-10K. as a side note, the upgrade from 1A to the 1B is a substantial improvement. I own 2 of 'em.....

 

[Quadman2]

Gosh golly, do you think it might have something to do with the geo origin where the bulk of these devices are manufactured? I'm out on the limb on my comment, as not sure if these are now coming from over "there" as most things are?

Q

 

[bang4buck]

^Not sure what to make of that comment. The OP mentioned Grado, Stanton and Pickering. All made in the US, in fact, all made in NY state.

Let me be the first to mention one of the most hyped cartridges in history, the AT95E. The only cartridge in my (admittedly modest) collection that consistently disappoints.

 

[bimasta]

Hi, the DB8 is the same phono section in your DB1A 37db-47K. The DB8-HG is 52db-10K. as a side note, the upgrade from 1A to the 1B is a substantial improvement. I own 2 of 'em.....

Thanks for all the info. All I know of the 1A/1B upgrade is: new knobs, gold RCAs, +6dB gain (and I may be wrong about it). I substituted gold RCAs and nicer knobs myself, and think it already had the +6dB gain.

What other benefits come with the 1A/1B upgrade?

 

[gadget73]

Also, when I finally got a "Calibration Standard" Stanton 681EEE, it was kinda "meh". It sounds fine, but really not that much better than its less pricey "consumer-grade" cousin, the Pickering XV-15.

Only real difference in the "Cal Standard" version is that it comes with a piece of paper confirming the specs. Once you replace that original stylus it is no longer calibrated. No magic to it otherwise. I have a couple of 680 bodies, which are the same as the XV-15 and 681 but they didn't come with the sticker or the cert.

 

[kirk57]

Grados. I've owned four, I'm a slow learner I guess. Seem kind of ponderous to me. But the reviews were so good!
Shures: I have had the M44, M92, M95, M75. Tried medium mass Jelco and Rega arms and a low mass ADC arm. Just not working for me.

I like the tonal balance of Empires, Stanton/Pickering and Audio Technicas I've had.

No right or wrong here, it's just a preference thing.

 

[bimasta]

Let me be the first to mention one of the most hyped cartridges in history, the AT95E. The only cartridge in my (admittedly modest) collection that consistently disappoints.

I find many 'hyped' carts disappointing, while 'sleepers' are often stunning: always a 'Eureka' moment. Could it be most people prefer a sound we don't like (a Bell Curve of some kind)?

 

[marcmorin]

Thanks for all the info. All I know of the 1A/1B upgrade is: new knobs, gold RCAs, +6dB gain (and I may be wrong about it). I substituted gold RCAs and nicer knobs myself, and think it already had the +6dB gain.

What other benefits come with the 1A/1B upgrade?

The ALPS volume control. the 6db from the 1 to 1A wasn't gain, but channel separation. The 1B is more expansive in the soundstage, less sterile/dry (sweeter) in the high end.

 

[Final_Baton]

Let me be the first to mention one of the most hyped cartridges in history, the AT95E. The only cartridge in my (admittedly modest) collection that consistently disappoints.

I also don't like that one. Sounds harsh to my ears.

 

[Chrisxo55441]

The AT Art 9 for me bought one after reading many great reviews. Tried it with 4 phono stages and a few receiver inputs but it never did anything for me and I sold it soon after getting it

 

[DavidTT]

Ortofon 2m blue, which consistently sounded dry, clinical, just no fun to my ears. Sold it on ebay for quite a loss a few months after buying it.

Also, Clearaudio Virtuoso V1, which was detailed and involving, good really, but I found myself put off bigly by its new price and non-replaceable stylus, which of course was absolutely replaceable. Made me think that Clearaudio was prone to duplicity in their dealings with the buying public. Not a good thing to make customers think you're likely to gouge them when given the chance.

 

[steven94]

MJW21a the 7500s and the 785lze are LOMM not MI. I have a XLZ4500s same body just a bonded stylus. I love it I find it smooth and lush. I use this on one TT and mostly play jazz and stuff like later Beatles, Dire straits,Steely Dan. on a second TT I use mostly Stanton MIs for their punch with Blues and Rock, but I will play anything on either TT depending on my mood.

 

[bimasta]

The AT Art 9 for me bought one after reading many great reviews. Tried it with 4 phono stages and a few receiver inputs but it never did anything for me and I sold it soon after getting it

I have an early predecessor, the OC9. Bought it new when it was the "steal of the century" (that was the last century) and never used it, just saved it for later. That was a couple months ago (a century later, so to speak). I love it. I'm not against AT though many say they're harsh, too bright, but I haven't had many. I have a ML150OCC, not the later MLX, but can't use it because it's buggered inside; the dealer just gave it to me. The wonderful stylus/cantilever need to be used somehow.

 

[spark1]

I find many 'hyped' carts disappointing, while 'sleepers' are often stunning: always a 'Eureka' moment. Could it be most people prefer a sound we don't like (a Bell Curve of some kind)?

Yes.

Perhaps a thread about popular speakers you don't like would also be enlightening.

 

[wyn palmer]

I question why running a low output, very low inductance cartridge, into a device that adds a buttload of inductance into the circuit. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of low inductance.
impedance in a circuit goes up with frequency as a function of inductance. The higher the inductance, the faster the rise in impedance with a rise in frequency. Low inductance is the only electrical advantage a MC has over a MM. Run 'em into 52db gain. My low-out grados certainly don't lack "body". My DB 8HG is 52db gain, 10K input load

I don't think that you understand how a transformer works. The input inductance shunts the input to ground and needs to be large enough to avoid degrading the LF response of the cartridge.
At LF MC cartridges look like a voltage source in series with a resistor- generally in the 10ish ohms region- so a large inductance is necessary. At HF the biggest problem is that the transformer increases the capacitance that is present on the secondary of the transformer by the square of the turns ratio, and reduces the load R by the same amount. There are other issues also, but the winding inductance does not have the effect that you think it does.