How to get more bass out of CS-77's

krameraxeman

krameraxeman

Active Member
How to get more bass out of CS-77's?

OK, before you begin feverishly typing responses like "WTF? Those speakers suck! Why on earth....etc..." Please hear me out. These speakers were my Dad's and came as a package with his SX-1500T...both have extreme sentimental value to me. They are in perfect cosmetic shape and working order. I recapped the crossovers with some way too expensive KimberKap's and AudioCap Theta's. They are really high efficiency. I like the mids and highs a lot, but these speakers are rather lacking in low end.

I've been thinking about replacing the 12" woofers with:

  • Dayton Class 12 - I've heard good things, but they are low efficiency compared to my speakers 90.5db vs 105db. Also has 8 hole mounting where my speakers are 6 holes.
  • MCM Speaker - They have the same 6 hole mounting pattern, so easy drop in, but same concern about low efficiency
  • MCM Speaker - Higher efficiency "98db" but have 8 hole mounting pattern. Also not sure if the Q is too low for my cabs

I've also been thinking about:

  • Sealing up the bass reflex port with MDF and stuffing the boxes
  • Lining the cabs with Sonic Barrier
  • Making mounting adapters for smaller 10" or 8" woofers as I've heard the 12's are too big for these cabs.

Would any of these ideas work? Are there better ways to go? I'd really appreciate help as I'm clearly not an expert in this area.
 
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From a sentimental approach leave the drivers original. As the years go by you'll be glad you did. Leave the port, just fill the box with ample acoustic stuffing. Enjoy them for what they are. Good Luck, and keep us posted....Spooker
 
Spooker said:
From a sentimental approach leave the drivers original. As the years go by you'll be glad you did. Leave the port, just fill the box with ample acoustic stuffing. Enjoy them for what they are. Good Luck, and keep us posted....Spooker
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I hear ya. I actually did stuff them with cheap poly-fil from walmart. It helped a little, but wasn't huge. I was just curious if the lack of bass is due to the old driver, an issue with the cab design, or perhaps a driver/cab mismatch. I'm not necessarily worried about keeping them original if I can improve their performance. I just don't want to murder their appearance or spend a fortune.
 
Spooker said:
From a sentimental approach leave the drivers original. As the years go by you'll be glad you did. Leave the port, just fill the box with ample acoustic stuffing. Enjoy them for what they are. Good Luck, and keep us posted....Spooker
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I disagree. I'd call Parts Express or Madisound with the cabinet measurements and get their recommendations. There is no good reason to listen to speakers you don't enjoy. You will have far better memories of your father listening to music that sounds good rather than suffering bad sound for no good reason. I bet your dad would agree too. Good luck!

cubdog
 
I just sold a pair of these and I know what you are talking about . Nice highs and no bass . Can you just add a sub and try that for a while ?
 
Leave the speakers intact, and just buy a sub.

I'm not sure why this hasn't been suggested, but why try to rebuild a speaker with non-original parts? By the time you figure in new parts and YOUR time, a used or even new sub can be had, and you'll solve the problem.

Most likely, you'll also save some money without any major surgery to the box or x-over.

Just my 2 cents.
 
If you heard them before and remember them having better low end performance but they were in a different room and/or with different equipment the problem may not be with the speaker itself. Does a little bit of tweaking on the bass tone control not wake 'em up?
 
I appreciate the suggestions around using a sub, but my receiver doesn't have the ability to connect one. No sub-out or pre-outs. Good suggestion though. I also have space constraints as this system is in a 10x10 office.

The one thing with the CS-77's is that the crossovers only control the mid and tweeter. I was assuming that I could simply replace the woofer (if it's the culprit) without considering the crossover.
 
I appreciate the suggestions around using a sub, but my receiver doesn't have the ability to connect one. No sub-out or pre-outs. Good suggestion though. I also have space constraints as this system is in a 10x10 office.

I can to some degree correct the bass response by using loudness, so it's not that the woofers are dead, but my other A. Jones pioneers bump on the same receiver with a flat eq. I've tried them on both my SX-1500T and NAD 7140. Same results on both receivers with both sets of speakers.

As for the pucks, I actually have my CS-77's on angled back stands that are up about 12" in the front, maybe 10" in the back. That definitely made them sound better. Great suggestion.

The one thing with the CS-77's is that the crossovers only control the mid and tweeter. I was assuming that I could simply replace the woofer (if it's the culprit) without considering the crossover. Maybe I'll call P-E or Madisound like cubdog suggested.
 
Do you have the A and B speaker options on this receiver ? Can you run A and B at the same time ? Can`t you run your speaker B to a powered sub and run A and B at the same time ?
 

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butch4695 said:
Do you have the A and B speaker options on this receiver ? Can you run A and B at the same time ? Can`t you run your speaker B to a powered sub and run A and B at the same time ?
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I have used a sub with an older receiver (SX-780) before with great results. You didn't mention that you were using the "B" side of the receiver. You can run speaker wire from the B side to the input (high input) of the subwoofer, if it has one. I know the 3 subs I own have them. You can adjust the output of the sub with the volume on the back of it and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I would definitely do that before replacing the woofers in those Pioneers. Good luck!
 
butch4695 said:
Do you have the A and B speaker options on this receiver ? Can you run A and B at the same time ? Can`t you run your speaker B to a powered sub and run A and B at the same time ?
Click to expand...

Keymaster said:
I have used a sub with an older receiver (SX-780) before with great results. You didn't mention that you were using the "B" side of the receiver. You can run speaker wire from the B side to the input (high input) of the subwoofer, if it has one. I know the 3 subs I own have them. You can adjust the output of the sub with the volume on the back of it and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I would definitely do that before replacing the woofers in those Pioneers. Good luck!
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Oh, yes, both my SX-1500T and my NAD have speakers A&B. I guess I could try that. I sort of don't like the idea of using a sub with my 2ch stuff, but I guess I could snag my Sunfire from my 5.1 setup to test it out. Thanks.
 
krameraxeman said:
Oh, yes, both my SX-1500T and my NAD have speakers A&B. I guess I could try that. I sort of don't like the idea of using a sub with my 2ch stuff, but I guess I could snag my Sunfire from my 5.1 setup to test it out. Thanks.
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Well I would think that a Sunfire would be a very good choice to test the waters . Good luck .
 
You are simply not going to get a lot of bass from this particular Pioneer set, least all the ones I have had around never did impress me.
Not sure if subwoofer is the "thing" you want to do- or roll the dice and re-driver the low end. I would be more tempted to find a buddie or two with some extra 12" driver to try out and see how well it could sound. Given the improvement in drivers offered today you may well find a Dayton or Vifa that could work well! After all good subs are hard to come by and afford!
Good luck with your choice here- it is interesting. I perform a fair amount of retrofitting and know your challenges!
DC
 
Krameraxeman, sent a pair of Pioneer CS-77s up to Nevada City a few months ago. With Technics SA-500 providing amplification. Bypassed 77's stock crossover control, & used a 12 uf Dayton polypropylene cap for mid-range x-over; along with a 4.7 uf Dayton polyprop cap for tweet. Recipient is auld-skool hip-hop fanatic, & extremely impressed with how much thump she pumps from her big Pioneer speakers. She also uses system for home theatre duty. 77s utilize fairly efficient alnico drivers, & sound absolutely magical through simplified capacitor crossovers. 73s para Sactown!!!
 
FRG7SWL said:
Krameraxeman, sent a pair of Pioneer CS-77s up to Nevada City a few months ago. With Technics SA-500 providing amplification. Bypassed 77's stock crossover control, & used a 12 uf Dayton polypropylene cap for mid-range x-over; along with a 4.7 uf Dayton polyprop cap for tweet. Recipient is auld-skool hip-hop fanatic, & extremely impressed with how much thump she pumps from her big Pioneer speakers. She also uses system for home theatre duty. 77s utilize fairly efficient alnico drivers, & sound absolutely magical through simplified capacitor crossovers. 73s para Sactown!!!
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Interesting. My crossovers have a 12uf and a 2.2uf for the mid and tweeter. The crossover doesn't really do anything for the woofer though. Are you sure your's weren't the CS-77a's? Those aren't ported and I've heard they reproduce bass much better.

Mine look like this.....
Pioneer_CS-77_Stereo_Speakers_web.jpg
 
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